Medium Format film developing

Hassyman · May 2, 2009

After many years of shooting both Medium Format and Large Format 4x5 for landscape photography I made the switch to Digital in the late 90's on up to my 2008 purchase of a Nikon D300. I like shooting digital because of the convenience but now I've come back full circle using film again and using Medium Format to be exact with a blad. I've been doing my own scans with an Epson V500 scanner and have had very good success with it however I've been sending my film out to be processed in a lab and then bring them back to CS2 before printing on my Epson R1900. My question is do most of you folks develop your own film or do you send it out? It's only $7 to process a roll of 120 and $8 for 220 here in Asheville, NC so I'm wondering if it's worth doing myself and having a darkroom again? There must be something magical about film that keeps me coming back.........at 64 yrs. of age maybe it's just nostalgia? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

panastasia · May 2, 2009

I'm 61 and always developed my own film for the consistency in the results, and to experiment. For the past two years I've been mixing my own chemistry from scratch. The chemicals are easily obtainable and not very expensive if you stay with standard, or basic, formulas. There's where the fun is, there's an amazing number of formulas, new and old, especially for developing prints. I usually stick to the ones that I personally like once I discover them. You could put together a new darkroom real cheap these days. Welcome to APUG, you'll find all the information you need right here!

Paul

fschifano · May 2, 2009

Are we talking B&W or C-41? B&W is easy to do at home and the chemistry is dirt cheap. Total cost of materials to run a single roll of 120 can be under $1. Add in the fact that you can tailor the development to perfectly suit you needs and the decision becomes almost a no-brainer.

C-41 is different. Temperature control and timing needs to be far more exact, making the process a bit of a pain for the home user. C-41 chemistry is more expensive for the home user too. This stuff is designed to be replenished and labs that handle a lot of C-41 can exploit this feature fully, thus bringing economies of scale to the table that the low volume user can't match. And since the C-41 process is so exacting, there is no fine-tuning of the development. You either get it right or you don't.

My advice? Do the B&W work yourself and send the C-41 stuff out.

Hassyman · May 2, 2009

Black & White developing

This is a great site.............I shoot mainly BW and it looks like maybe I need to get back into processing my own film again as opposed to letting someone else be in control with my imgaes........I'm sure today there are newer chemicals to work with but what would be a simple approach for me to get started in processing my film. Are there any good websites out there. I use to use JOBO systems for my 4x5 work but what about medium format?

panastasia · May 2, 2009

I shoot medium format roll film and sheet film. I develop the roll film on stainless reels and in stainless cans - the same cans used for 35mm film - and sheet film in open trays, like with prints, but in total darkness - B&W film. You'll need a good thermometer and something to watch the time. If you want to develop color film the savings are not that great, you'll need very strict temperature control and you'll run the risk of inconsistent results if you try to stretch the chemistry, to save on cost. I never enjoyed developing color films because it was too time consuming and boring. What are you thinking of doing? I buy much of my stuff from B&H (website), it's usually at my door in less than two days w/lowest shipping cost. I'm always amazed how fast they ship.

David William White · May 2, 2009

To set yourself up, find a traditional photography shop in your area with used darkroom equipment -- lots of people dropping off stuff no longer needed. I've picked up almost everything I need used. The rest from swap meets and eBay. I'm currently doing 120 in a Paterson tank -- reels are adjustable (135,127,120) & I can do 3x135 or 2x120 at once. For 4x5 I just use trays.

For chemistry I decided to stick with developers that I could get from multiple local sources without any fuss.

Look at the vendors here on APUG: Freestyle and UltraFineOnline can be your source should you decide to go new with everything.

And ask for recommendations here -- you'll get an avalanche.

Hassyman · May 2, 2009

Thanks I have a Camera shop close by in Asheville called "Ball" photo.........when you walk through the doors it's like walking back in time 40 years
with all the old cameras etc. they have. I'll have to check on Monday to see if they have some used developing equipment at the store. Also I'll check tomorrow online some of the links mentioned. Now all I have to do is talk my wife into converting our bathroom into a Dark Room........easier said than done. I used the laundry room we had but that didn't go over very well as I recall. It was over 15 yrs. ago so maybe she's forgotten about the fumes I had going on.

Peter Black · May 2, 2009

Hassyman said:
I used the laundry room we had but that didn't go over very well as I recall. It was over 15 yrs. ago so maybe she's forgotten about the fumes I had going on.

Good news is that you can now get both odourless stop bath and odourless fixer, so that'll be an improvement!

http://www.firstcall-photographic.c.../tetenal-indicet-odourless-stop-bath-1-litre/

http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/prod.asp?i=13771&1=Fotospeed+FX30+Odourless+Fixer

panastasia · May 2, 2009

Hassyman, you need to have your own little space. My darkroom is movable, right now it's in a walk in closet, off my bedroom, next to a bathroom (no ventilation yet, the fumes are no real problem - don't smell bad - I open the door often to turn the light on/off and let in fresh air). In the past, when I did color work and larger prints, it was down in the basement but the water source was two rooms away - in the laundry room - where I do the print washing and stinky toning. I use a small fan to blow the smell out the window.

I stopped doing color film and paper processing because its easier with digital methods, and some of my old color negatives, transparencies, and prints are deteriorating after 20-30 years. They're not stable. All my B&W prints look as good as the day I made them, and when I show them to people, with the color prints, old and new, I often hear the comment: "I like the B&W prints the best". That also reflects my preference. I now only use fiber based paper - and wash them good (not available in color). I even hand color some of them. Something your wife can do, it's easy.

Tell your wife, at our age we need something to keep our brains healthy and working. Photography is good for that.

Paul

srs5694 · May 2, 2009

A few random comments:

Although I agree that the case for doing B&W yourself is better than the case for doing color (C-41) yourself, doing color yourself has its advantages: It's faster than sending it out to a good lab and you're less likely to get scratched or fogged negatives, which are common with 1-hour labs in drug stores. IMHO, C-41 isn't as hard as fschifano makes it out to be -- at least, not developing film to negatives. The extra effort is basically just temperature control, and a water bath does that just fine. Making RA-4 prints from C-41 negatives, OTOH, takes some learning.
Developing film into negatives (or transparencies) is easy and doesn't require a full darkroom. If you're happy to scan and make digital prints, that can be a good way to go. If you want to make traditional darkroom prints, though, you'll need more equipment and either a dedicated space or a way to temporarily and quickly convert a space into a darkroom. There's a thread here somewhere in which people post photos of their darkrooms, so consult it for ideas.
IMHO, a book is a good way to learn. I started with The Basic Darkroom Book, 3rd Edition by Tom Grimm. Among Web sites, The Black & White Darkroom is one I've got bookmarked; however, the site seems to be down at the moment (I hope that's temporary).
There are a dizzying array of chemicals to get started with. I posted a rather lengthy reply to a question on this topic recently; (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

fschifano · May 2, 2009

Hassyman said:
...I'm sure today there are newer chemicals to work with but what would be a simple approach for me to get started in processing my film. Are there any good websites out there. I use to use JOBO systems for my 4x5 work but what about medium format?

You know, for B&W work not much has changed. D-76 is still the developer of record and works perfectly well with just about any current film. The only thing different now vs. 40 years ago has been the introduction of ascorbate based developers like XTOL and that technology has been in common use for at least 20 years. Think of XTOL as a better D-76 than D-76, and you're there. Stop bath is nothing more than a very dilute acetic or citric acid bath. That hasn't changed a bit. Fixer is fixer. Your choices are sodium (regular fixer) or ammonium (rapid fixer) thiosulfate formulae. Films are better. TMax and Delta films have opened up new opportunities offering much finer grain for a given speed than we had years ago. Even the old standbys like Plus-X and Tri-X have improved grain structure characteristics, but have retained the tonal qualities that made them so popular back in the day.

The Jobo system, I'm told, is very good for 4x5 work. I see no reason not to use it for 120 films if you already have the gear. All you'd need is a medium format film reel to fit the tank you might already have. If not, any old stainless steel or plastic tank and reel kit will do for medium format work. I'm partial to the plastic tanks with the "self loading" reels myself. Others prefer the stainless steel gear. Horses for courses, I say. In the end, they both work.

dpurdy · May 2, 2009

I am going to buck the trend here a bit. If that Ball lab is like going back 40 years, perhaps they can customize their process for you and if 7 dollars a roll seems inexpensive to you then you might get exactly what you want and not have to trouble with the processing.

For myself I have always processed my own (35 years) and can't imagine paying someone else to do it as I am a control freak and I like to experiment with different developers and it is a major part of the creative process for me. It isn't part of the creative process for a lot of people, it is a necessary step. 7 dollars a roll is way more than I can afford to pay because I am just a photographer scrapping to get by. Processing my own I keep the price down to ... well I never figured it out, but it is pretty cheap.

There is a lot of skill involved in precise and consistent processing without processing flaws. I have several people who pay me to process their film for them because they screw it up themselves. So I would consider talking to the ball photo people and see how personal they can make their service for you.
Dennis

dwdmguy · May 2, 2009

Hi Hasseyman, I'm 49 and do all my processing, 35mm, 120 and soon 4x5 at home. I'm in the process of building a Darkroom and now use a changing bag which works just fine. Go for it.

Morry Katz · May 4, 2009

I got back to shooting b&w about 25 years ago and starting doing my own processing again at the same time. The best thing about doing your own is YOU get to choose the developer, YOU get to determine the contrast range, YOU push or pull as required, and YOU do it when it suits you. No waiting. It's great! P.S. - I'm 75 and still at it.
Cheers
Morry Katz - Lethbridge, AB

Rolleijoe · May 4, 2009

As pointed out by many others before me, processing your own b&w film opens up a whole world of possibilities. Since you've done this before, should be no problem for you, and I'm sure you're aware you do not need a complete darkroom just to process film. Merely a daylight light-tight tank (Patterson is no longer, but still fairly available), and a lot less of a hassle than JOBOs.

I had a ATL-3 and sold it after a year because it was just too much of a pain to use. You're right too, in that there is a wealth of "new" developers now available on the US market (via Freestyle) from the European market. BTW, I thing they are the only source for Rodinal since Agfa went kaput.

srs5694 · May 4, 2009

Rolleijoe said:
(Patterson is no longer, but still fairly available)

Excuse me?!? Have I missed something? Paterson still has a Web site, with no hint of their having gone under, and lots of Paterson products are still available at B&H. If I've missed an announcement about Paterson going under, please post a reference! They did have some chemical supply problems a while ago (they switched from one supplier to another, and dropped their color line in the process), but AFAIK Paterson is still in business.

removed-user-1 · May 4, 2009

Hassyman said:
Thanks I have a Camera shop close by in Asheville called "Ball" photo.........when you walk through the doors it's like walking back in time 40 years

I am up in Boone, unfortunately we no longer have any sort of camera store here and the only real one left in Charlotte is Biggs Camera. I've never even heard of Ball Photo but it looks like a trip to Asheville lies in the very near future! (As if I need an excuse to drive on the Blue Ridge Parkway!)

Rolleijoe · May 4, 2009

srs5694 said:
Excuse me?!? Have I missed something? Paterson still has a Web site, with no hint of their having gone under, and lots of Paterson products are still available at B&H. If I've missed an announcement about Paterson going under, please post a reference! They did have some chemical supply problems a while ago (they switched from one supplier to another, and dropped their color line in the process), but AFAIK Paterson is still in business.

I read online a year or 2 ago, that Patterson would no longer be making tanks/supplies but that yes, B&H and others do have a supply, and there is quite a backstock.

Just passing along what was told.

Medium Format film developing

removed-user-1

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