Mechanical jewel, which one? Nikon F2, F, FM2 etc or No Nikon?

flavio81 · Sep 30, 2015

miha said:
I beg your pardon but saying that Leicalfex is less reliable than the above listed cameras is... funny.

I can bet you, that today, september 2015, you can pick 10 Nikon F and 10 Leicaflex SL, and you will find that probably 0 to 1 of the Nikons will show any failure, while at least 4 of the Leicaflexes will have at least one shutter problem, plus all of them will have prism desilvering.

The shutter relies on some rubber parts that do not age well at all.

If you do own Leicaflexes that gave no problem from since you bought them, please do tell me, because I would love to have one that works perfectly.

WigglePig · Sep 30, 2015

F6.

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miha · Sep 30, 2015

Prism desilvering is not a reliability problem, merely cosmetic one. Leica still has new prisms and some (Dag) can resilver them. You can bet what you like (four out of ten?) but Leicaflex shutters are just fine. Mine SL serves me fine too, it was serviced (just regular maintenance) in 2009 and built in 1968.

flavio81 · Sep 30, 2015

miha said:
Prism desilvering is not a reliability problem, merely cosmetic one. Leica still has new prisms and some (Dag) can resilver them. You can bet what you like (four out of ten?) but Leicaflex shutters are just fine. Mine SL serves me fine too, it was serviced (just regular maintenance) in 2009 and built in 1968.

I believe you, and I am taking note, but: How's the weather in slovenia?

Here in lima, with tons of humidity, my friend who is a collector and has MANY leicas in general, has no working Leicaflex camera. All of them have shutter problems. He has three or four. Of course, i understand they can be fixed. But conversely all his F2 and F cameras are just fine.

Prism desilvering is a serious problem when you can't focus anymore because it is dimming the center of the viewfinder view.

Otherwise, if my friend had a Leicaflex with a good enough prism and a shutter that works, no matter if the speeds are a little bit slow, I would have bought it from him. On the other hand i bought from him a Canon New F-1 more or less battered, the AE prism smashed in the top, brassed and worn, and dirty. It worked perfectly and still works just fine, including metering, AE functions, and of course all shutter functions. Granted, it is a much newer camera than a Leicaflex. But also, a Nikon F from about 1970, with the shutter curtain wrinkled (!), works just fine save for sluggish speeds. Got it serviced - now it's just fine.

Moreover, I also bought a Nikon F from 1967 which needed absolutely zero service; everything worked perfectly from the start. (Photomic finders are another issue)

miha · Sep 30, 2015

Just a small note: desilvering doesn't mean darker, it means the prism goes pale yellow in colour, with possible random faint spots. Focusing is not particularly affected by it.

Found this while browsing: Dead Link Removed

flavio81 · Sep 30, 2015

miha said:
Just a small note: desilvering doesn't mean darker, it means the prism goes pale yellow in colour, with possible random faint spots. Focusing is not particularly affected by it.

Found this while browsing: Dead Link Removed

Miha, you should see the desilvering i've seen on one of my friend's Leicaflexes. It was so bad the viewfinder is dim, yellow, with random fuzzy patches, and hard to use.

miha · Sep 30, 2015

Well, anything is possible. The one pictured here, for instance, fell from a plane: http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00HnrI

leicarfcam · Sep 30, 2015

flavio81 said:
If you do own Leicaflexes that gave no problem from since you bought them, please do tell me, because I would love to have one that works perfectly.

I bought one new in 1970 and another used in 1973 and to date neither has given me a bit of trouble nor is there any desilvering of the prism. They are very complex and difficult to work on though.. So far the only work I have done on either is to add a Schottky diode and machine an adapter to use a silver oxide 357 battery..

Someonenameddavid · Sep 30, 2015

The Leica flex didn't survive being ejected, but was replaced undefined the Leica Passport program

gzhuang · Sep 30, 2015

Nikon FA, the most under-rated Nikon manual camera with matrix metering.

kivis · Oct 1, 2015

I have to second this. I own many Nikon Cameras and my meterless F is my favorite.

anjoom_aj · Oct 1, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
Nikon FM or FE: or of course a Hasselblad 500/1 CM)

I love my FE. Thats my most used camera from the collection i have

flavio81 · Oct 1, 2015

anjoom_aj said:
I love my FE. Thats my most used camera from the collection i have

My FE was my most used Nikon as well (until i sold it for a FG), and I agree that it packs a lot of functionality into a small, very easy to use body. However, i would not consider it a "mechanical jewel": The vertical shutter was noticeably more jerky than the horizontal shutter of the pro Nikons, and the build quality was not at the level of the pro Nikons and Nikkormats.

Also, it is an electronic shutter timing camera, so not exactly a 100% mechanical camera.

flavio81 · Oct 1, 2015

leicarfcam said:
I bought one new in 1970 and another used in 1973 and to date neither has given me a bit of trouble nor is there any desilvering of the prism. They are very complex and difficult to work on though.. So far the only work I have done on either is to add a Schottky diode and machine an adapter to use a silver oxide 357 battery..

I see you are from Texas. That's why i was asking for the climate... Here the climate is extremely humid and many cameras suffer because of this. I can bet prism desilvering is stimulated by high humidity.

Not to mention the lenses: Here i've seen lenses with so much fungus that you can't see anything on the other end of the lens!

GarageBoy · Oct 1, 2015

The Classic Canon F-1 - if I remember from Modern Photographys breakdown- ball bearings every where and the nicest film advance I've ever experienced (the F3 is smooth in a way that you feel like you're advancing nothing, but the F-1 is smooth with feedback)

cuthbert · Oct 1, 2015

GarageBoy said:
The Classic Canon F-1 - if I remember from Modern Photographys breakdown- ball bearings every where and the nicest film advance I've ever experienced (the F3 is smooth in a way that you feel like you're advancing nothing, but the F-1 is smooth with feedback)

You mean the first F-1, 1971-81, right? The N has many qualities but its advance lever is the worst thing of the camera.

The old F-1 is indeed smooth, much smoother than any Nikon I've tried.

flavio81 · Oct 1, 2015

cuthbert said:
You mean the first F-1, 1971-81, right? The N has many qualities but its advance lever is the worst thing of the camera.

The old F-1 is indeed smooth, much smoother than any Nikon I've tried.

Cuthberth,

I have the original F-1 and have envied the supposedly "improved" advance on the "n". Or you do mean the "N"? Because from the original to the "n", there was a change in the film advance angle.

The film advance in the "N" is rough for a pro camera, but still acceptable. And of course far different than the smoothness of the original F-1.

As for the Nikons, the F3 had an even smoother film advance than the Canon F-1, but the advance lever (in my F3) felt loose. The F-1 lever feels tight and precise while gliding smooth.

The F2 also has an excellent film advance! Smooth and really quick.

John Koehrer · Oct 1, 2015

Confession!!!! I didn't read the entire thread. Mea Culpa.

Has anyone mentioned the crystal Hasselblad? That was a real jewel!

Not mechanical though.

cuthbert · Oct 2, 2015

flavio81 said:
Cuthberth,

I have the original F-1 and have envied the supposedly "improved" advance on the "n". Or you do mean the "N"? Because from the original to the "n", there was a change in the film advance angle.

The film advance in the "N" is rough for a pro camera, but still acceptable. And of course far different than the smoothness of the original F-1.

As for the Nikons, the F3 had an even smoother film advance than the Canon F-1, but the advance lever (in my F3) felt loose. The F-1 lever feels tight and precise while gliding smooth.

The F2 also has an excellent film advance! Smooth and really quick.

I have a 1977 F-1n (supposedly shorter stroke than the original F-1) and yes, that's the smooothest advance lever I have besides the Leica M3. The F2 and FM are good but not as good, the F-1N is quite unpleasant because I assume it uses heady duty steel gears (it was destined to be coupled with a powerful motordrive) so that was the driving requirement, if I have to find a flaw in the F-1N that's the only one that comes in my mind, but you can't have everything.

flavio81 · Oct 2, 2015

cuthbert said:
if I have to find a flaw in the F-1N that's the only one that comes in my mind, but you can't have everything.

I can find two:

- Mirror up mechanism is not as smooth as in the original F-1, and it has no mirror lock-up. The Canon engineers supposedly claimed they brought down the mirror shock to levels where MLU was not necessary, but a stripdown report of the Canon F-1N says there is no mirror deaccelerating/damping device, while the F-1 surely does have one (as well as the AE-1, A-1, FTb, even the Canonflex has it!...). This still lets me scratching my head...

- Mechanical speeds (without battery) require the shutter button to be way harder than usual. On the other hand, this is not bad, because it reminds you that you're working without a battery.

Still, the F-1N is my favorite 35mm SLR.

GarageBoy · Oct 2, 2015

The F2 is smooth, but it's definitely stiff- you can feel all the heavy duty steel gears mesh on that one

flavio81 · Oct 3, 2015

My Nikon F had a noticeable mirror-up vibration and yesterday I traded it for another Nikon F which is very smooth overall including mirror up movement! Also, film advance way smoother. My previous F was worn, it seems. Or needed correct CLA (my technican did not do a good work here.)

So it seems it was a matter of wear or adjustment. The Mirror mechanism (on the F) relies on a leaf spring for the mirror-up force, and I bet the bending of this spring can be adjusted to provide just enough force.

ColColt · Oct 3, 2015

GarageBoy said:
The F2 is smooth, but it's definitely stiff- you can feel all the heavy duty steel gears mesh on that one

Sounds like it needs a trip to the UK with Mr. Wong. I just got my F2 back from him due to a shutter curtain problem and I decided to give him carte blanche and just do it all while he had it. That included many things as a relube of all parts that needed it as well as cleaning resistor ring and replacement of the 30+ year old Cds cells among other things. The film advance lever is about as smooth as my M2 now. If anyone has never seen the inside of an F2(DP-11) meter for the F2A this is what it looks like...nothing I'd want to tackle.

DP-11 118213_1 by David Fincher, on Flickr

John_Nikon_F · Oct 4, 2015

GarageBoy said:
The F2 is smooth, but it's definitely stiff- you can feel all the heavy duty steel gears mesh on that one

Have it serviced. My F2AS feels almost as light as an F3 now when I advance the film.

http://soverf2repair.webs.com

Not cheap, but, well worth it.

-J

ColColt · Oct 4, 2015

I can vouch for Sover. My F2A just came back from him and never saw anyone be so thorough. It's like a new camera and I decided to have him replace the old Cds cells while he had it in hand and clean the resistor ring as well as a total CLA.

Mechanical jewel, which one? Nikon F2, F, FM2 etc or No Nikon?

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