Mechanical jewel, which one? Nikon F2, F, FM2 etc or No Nikon?

camtec · Aug 28, 2014

Les Sarile said:
By corrugated do you mean the honeycomb titanium shutters?

Yup. that's the one. I've replaced a bunch of them with the later smooth blades. Usually it is only one of the curtains that need replacing; however, I would replace both of them. Apparently the blades would "whip", distort, of something similar due to the strong spring force exerted. The curtain travel time with those shutters was much faster than that of the FM and FE. It was about a 65$ repair. I didn't replace the whole shutter.

camtec · Aug 28, 2014

Actually, I've repaired many more mechanical than electrical problems in my 25 years as a camera technician.

camtec · Aug 28, 2014

cmo said:
For some. Finding a mechanic for a Contarex gets a bit difficult, but that's due to a lack of spare parts. Finding a mechanic is simple. Finding a good mechanic is not too difficult. Finding a mechanic who is ready to repair a camera for a price below the market value of many cameras is difficult, but that's not the problem of a lack of mechanics. Many popular cameras like the Canon A1, AE-1 etc., many Minoltas and Pentaxes like the ME/MX, many Olympus OM cameras and many more are simply too cheap to get a repair. I can buy a working, serviced Canon A1 for 20-50 Euros, and that often includes 1-2 lenses. What if it fails? Repairing it is a waste of money, most people say. There is not a lack of mechanics, there is a lack of demand for time-consuming and cost-intensive repairs.

For cameras with a higher market value like Nikons, Leicas and Rolleiflex cameras I can choose from a long list of repair shops. Some are better, some are not so good, and I think they will survive because people are ready to pay an acceptable price for a Leica M CLA or similar jobs.

I don't know what the exchange rate between euros and dollars is, but my average charge for the cameras you mentioned was $45 USD or less.

E. von Hoegh · Aug 28, 2014

miha said:
Well, almost. :confused:
I believe Ricardo simply followed Ben's terminology. I sure did.

Surely you jest...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium

mohawk51 · Sep 29, 2015

stark_674 said:
Hi all,

I want to buy another camera.... Again the Last one.....
I want to buy a strong reliable camera to take shoot with for many and many time.
My choice is going to Nikon F2A (with DP-11) and not F2AS (with DP-12) cause the first uses needle and not leds.
I want to shoot with a rellay mechanical jewel, can you give me any other suggestion?
My budget is 300 max, Every suggestion is welcome.
Thanks in advance

Denny

IMHO, the "mechanical jewels" are the F2A and FM2N. Both compliment each other well. The plain F is not bad either.

cuthbert · Sep 29, 2015

I can't believe this thread is 4 years old and still gets fresh answers!

leicarfcam · Sep 29, 2015

mohawk51 said:
IMHO, the "mechanical jewels" are the F2A and FM2N. Both compliment each other well. The plain F is not bad either.

Actually the DP1 and DP11 are one in the same finder except for the mechanical meter linkage. One simply mates with the non-Ai lens while the other mates with the Ai lens and both use the same meter parts. As a result the DP1 Photomic should rank with your list.

Some may not know it but you can swap out the front linkage of the DP1 and DP11 in just a few minutes.

James Page · Sep 29, 2015

Sorry to come to this discussion so late.

the answer is obvious: a plain prism F. Everything else is derivative.:munch:

Ricardo Miranda · Sep 29, 2015

cuthbert said:
I can't believe this thread is 4 years old and still gets fresh answers!

Well, cuthbert, you can see it this way: full marks for the search capabilities of those new posters!
Someone was just telling me the other day that it is better to add to a discussion, even if many years after, then to open a new thread pretty much about the same thing. It makes
And, in this way you can add or revisit your own posts.

As it is, answering the initial question, I don't think that there are any advantages in the Nikon line up of mechanical cameras that make one significantly better than the others.
True that the use of expensive materials, such as titanium, might extend the useful life of a certain model, but you'll need to go to extremes to see the real advantages.
I consider that the FM series are probably the lightest and easiest to operate than heavier SLR like the F, F2 or the Nikkormats.
BTW, I've been studying and using a bit more the Nikkormats now and they are true beasts weighting slightly more than a F2 with plain prism.

cuthbert · Sep 29, 2015

I was surprised to see that these discussions live on and on...

I also agree the FM series is very nice and more pleasant to use than my FT3, that in any case feels more "quality" as it's all metal while in the FM there is more plastic. And yes, they weight more or less like a F2 with metered prism and they feel even tougher because of the monolithic design.

Ricardo Miranda · Sep 29, 2015

Yeap. Last Sunday I had a Nikkormat FTN with the Pre-Ai 28mm /3.5 and a FT3 with the Series E 35mm /2.5. Just these 2 felt like I had 3 or 4 OMs.

Off Topic: I get thorn between using the Nikons and the Olympus OMs. It is like when I use one system, I feel I'm "cheating" on the other.

Theo Sulphate · Sep 29, 2015

camtec said:
Actually, I've repaired many more mechanical than electrical problems in my 25 years as a camera technician.

However, as cameras have incorporated more electronics, their risk of failure increases (e.g. film wind, film rewind, lens focus, lens aperture, etc., all controlled by electronics. Individual failure rate of one subsystem may be low, but there are so many now compared to, for example, the 1970's. All it takes is one subsystem to fail to make the camera unusable.

In 2059 there will probably be many fully functioning Nikon F's -- but far fewer F6's.

MontanaJay · Sep 29, 2015

In my 30+ years in newspapers I accumulated two F models with straight prisms (both still work) two Nikkormat FTNs, (one of which still works) and an FM (still works). All were heavily used and abused.
The only reason the one -Mats died was I had a soft-shutter release on it and it caught on something and pulled the whole release mechanism out of the top of the camera.

Xmas · Sep 29, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Yeap. Last Sunday I had a Nikkormat FTN with the Pre-Ai 28mm /3.5 and a FT3 with the Series E 35mm /2.5. Just these 2 felt like I had 3 or 4 OMs.

Off Topic: I get thorn between using the Nikons and the Olympus OMs. It is like when I use one system, I feel I'm "cheating" on the other.

You need shooting eg a canon would do you good?

leicarfcam · Sep 30, 2015

Theo Sulphate said:
In 2059 there will probably be many fully functioning Nikon F's -- but far fewer F6's.

Lets see....2059 will put me at 106 yo if I'm still kicking but at least my G-G-Grandkids will have functioning mechanical cameras after the EMP attack..

pdmk · Sep 30, 2015

If I was supposed to buy my "last" mechanical camera it would be Contax S2 with some nice Zeiss lens

Ricardo Miranda · Sep 30, 2015

Xmas said:
You need shooting eg a canon would do you good?

Uff, that will be like having 2 mistress instead of just on.
I had a Canon before, or 2, well more like 10.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 30, 2015

stark_674 said:
Hi all,

I want to buy another camera.... Again the Last one.....
I want to buy a strong reliable camera to take shoot with for many and many time.
My choice is going to Nikon F2A (with DP-11) and not F2AS (with DP-12) cause the first uses needle and not leds.
I want to shoot with a rellay mechanical jewel, can you give me any other suggestion?
My budget is 300 max, Every suggestion is welcome.
Thanks in advance

Denny

Nikon FM or FE: or of course a Hasselblad 500/1 CM)

Drew B. · Sep 30, 2015

Nikon F100 is it

anjoom_aj · Sep 30, 2015

But a cheap body and invest in great lenses.

Pentax Spotmatic comes to my mind along with some fantastic Takumars. Cheap and tough.

MartinCrabtree · Sep 30, 2015

My Nikon F isn't a jewel,more like a exquisitely engineered clock tower. A jewel to me is a fine watch. The F is robust and precise however it's action and make up are far from dainty. It's precision is secondary to the hewn from solid block feel and hearty clack (not click) as the mechanism cycles when the shutter release is pushed. It's heavy and substantial with a reassuring heft that feels good when raised to the eye. It fosters a sense of permanence and confidence in use. A wonderfully designed and executed tool.

flavio81 · Sep 30, 2015

Mechanical Jewel?

Well, i don't have experience with Minoltas or Pentaxes so can't really include, but resorting to Nikon and Canon, let me first said that a jewel should probably have an HORIZONTAL shutter since for the "classic mechanical cameras" era (1950s-1970s), the vertical shutters were rougher, with more vibration. Also, apply pressure finger on a vertical shutter and you can wreck it, while the same, on a cloth or metal horizontal shutter, will do almost no harm.

So... here's my experience after using many Nikons and Canons:

Nikon F: Mechanical jewel, externally, because the build quality is so high. Internally, as one poster above said, it is a "clock tower". Not sophisticated but solid, reliable and smooth enough.

Nikon F2: Unquestionably a mechanical jewel internally. Sophisicated, reliable and very very smooth. The external build quality is a bit inferior to the Nikon F, in my experience.

Nikon F3: Internally a mechanical jewel as well, the mechanism is really really smooth, perhaps even smoother than the F2. Sadly, it relies on electronic shutter timing, so it's not really a "mechanical" camera. And the F3 electronics' reliablity are controversial.

Canon F-1 New: Externally a mechanical jewel, the build quality and solidness is higher than the Nikon F and F2.

Canon F-1: The winner for me in the "jewel" category. External build quality is higher than the Canon F-1 New and Nikon F AND F2, while internal mechanics are as smooth and refined as the ones in the F2.

I would NOT include the Nikkormats, despite being great cameras, because their operation (in terms of vibration) is definitely not as smooth as the horizontal-shutter Nikons.

I would also NOT include the FM or FE cameras because the build quality is not so high compared to the cameras above. FE2 or FE3, don't know.

It is important to note that I own all the pro cameras listed above save for the F3 (which I sold, but used a lot).

Finally we should include the Leicaflex original models as well. They are mechanical jewels!! Sadly, reliability is not on par as with the cameras above. Most reliable would be the Nikon F hands down, over ALL the other cameras listed here.

But thus, i declare, the original Canon F-1 as the overall winner on the mechanical jewel category. Sorry Nikon fans, you need to own a F-1 to understand. Canon wanted heavily to surpass the Nikon F in build and mechanical quality and they achieved that with the F-1. I still think that a Nikon F2 is a better camera from an users' point of view, though.

flavio81 · Sep 30, 2015

MartinCrabtree said:
My Nikon F isn't a jewel,more like a exquisitely engineered clock tower. A jewel to me is a fine watch. The F is robust and precise however it's action and make up are far from dainty. It's precision is secondary to the hewn from solid block feel and hearty clack (not click) as the mechanism cycles when the shutter release is pushed. It's heavy and substantial with a reassuring heft that feels good when raised to the eye. It fosters a sense of permanence and confidence in use. A wonderfully designed and executed tool.

Agree 100%. As a previous poster said; a Nikon F and a plain prism; everything else is derivative.
But note that the Nikon F is the most silent of the Nikons and Canons i listed above!

miha · Sep 30, 2015

flavio81 said:
Finally we should include the Leicaflex original models as well. They are mechanical jewels!! Sadly, reliability is not on par as with the cameras above. Most reliable would be the Nikon F hands down, over ALL the other cameras listed here.

I beg your pardon but saying that Leicalfex is less reliable than the above listed cameras is... funny.

http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00E7nE

Xmas · Sep 30, 2015

I've had more problems with Leica Ms than Nikon SLRs.

The Ms snap shutter ribbons regular, Nikons none yet.

Mechanical jewel, which one? Nikon F2, F, FM2 etc or No Nikon?

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