Maybe It's Time

RattyMouse · Apr 15, 2018

By the way, today I put up for sale (elsewhere) the first piece of camera gear. I am leaning towards divestiture and will see how that goes.

BradS · Apr 15, 2018

eddie said:
I don't know how long you've been using film, but anyone who has been using film for a few decades has experienced the loss of favorite materials. Those with a passion for photography adapt. I think, if your interest in photography is real, you will too.

Well said.

To the OP,
Films (emulsions) come and go. This latest loss is nothing new....just in my short lifetime, and just off the top of my head I recall seeing the end of...
Tech pan, Verichrome Pan, Plus-X , Kodachrome, Ektachrome E-100G, Agfa APX-100

...and yet, We have today, some very spectacular films available to us.
Some of which are, in many ways, better than everything that has come before.

So, get a grip, get over it. Move on. adapt or die. Keep moving forward!

RattyMouse · Apr 15, 2018

BradS said:
Well said.

To the OP,
Films (emulsions) come and go. This latest loss is nothing new....just in my short lifetime, and just off the top of my head I recall seeing the end of...
Tech pan, Verichrome Pan, Plus-X , Kodachrome, Ektachrome E-100G, Agfa APX-100

...and yet, We have today, some very spectacular films available to us.
Some of which are, in many ways, better than everything that has come before.

So, get a grip, get over it. Move on. adapt or die. Keep moving forward!

Again, you and several others have completely missed the second point (a full 50% of my post). Losing Acros is the 50% that you got. Reread and maybe it will get to you this time.

I've lost favorite films before. Reala 100 and Astia 100F. This time is different, which I (not so) clearly stated in my OP.

Sirius Glass · Apr 15, 2018

BradS said:
Well said.

To the OP,
Films (emulsions) come and go. This latest loss is nothing new....just in my short lifetime, and just off the top of my head I recall seeing the end of...
Tech pan, Verichrome Pan, Plus-X , Kodachrome, Ektachrome E-100G, Agfa APX-100

...and yet, We have today, some very spectacular films available to us.
Some of which are, in many ways, better than everything that has come before.

So, get a grip, get over it. Move on. adapt or die. Keep moving forward!

Since I got into photography in 1956 more films have have been discontinued than I ever knew about and yet I still find a way.

SilverShutter · Apr 15, 2018

Eventually all film will stop manufacture, and the only way to use film will be through home made solutions. And even though I do hope that is a far away time from now, I won't let that fear stop me from shooting, an emulsion less is clearly a big loss, but we have to live in the present, we should cherish all the years we enjoyed Acros, and now its time to move to something else unfortunately. I know the end of slide film is close as well but that won't make me treat Velvia or Provia like treasures, they are films made to be used and enjoyed, not to be looked at inside a refrigerator.

bascom49 · Apr 15, 2018

On the heels of sentiments by Silvershutter, if film is gone tomorrow then it’s gone. I’ve had a great time and will take all I’ve learned to continue photography in some other format or discipline. I just happened to have restocked my supply of Acros before the discontinuation, 30 rolls and will shoot it as normal with no worry about not being able to replace it. I’ll do the same with Velvia, Provia, Kodak, etc.

And if film is gone tomorrow 40 years from now I will still have my negatives, my prints and my joy as I am making images with whatever I happen to have 40 years hence and whatever I may have used in between.

bascom49 · Apr 15, 2018

As an afterthought, I’m more frustrated with the doomsday hand wringing that is starting to become more prevalent in these forums. I choose to support all film product manufacturers including Fuji (I love Instax) without bias with my dollar to give them a reason to support me and all of you.

Bill Burk · Apr 15, 2018

RattyMouse said:
I did shoot 4 rolls of TMAX400 in Kyoto worry free...

Haa well for me with 400 in the camera I worry the grain isn’t fine enough for the print I want to make. In 35mm I find I am pleased with “people” pictures at 400 but for “nature” I want 100.

In 4x5 I am satisfied with 400 for everything.

RattyMouse · Apr 15, 2018

Bill Burk said:
Haa well for me with 400 in the camera I worry the grain isn’t fine enough for the print I want to make. In 35mm I find I am pleased with “people” pictures at 400 but for “nature” I want 100.

In 4x5 I am satisfied with 400 for everything.

I was shooting with a TX-1 so had more resolution than a 35mm camera. Not 4 x 5 resolution though.

BradS · Apr 15, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Again, you and several others have completely missed the second point (a full 50% of my post). Losing Acros is the 50% that you got. Reread and maybe it will get to you this time.

I've lost favorite films before. Reala 100 and Astia 100F. This time is different, which I (not so) clearly stated in my OP.

I did read your whole post and have just re-read it. It just comes across as so much whining, bragging, negativity, and worrying about uncertainty over which you have no control.
I know that's harsh but....I think you just need to pull yourself together. Realize that this too shall pass, and move forward.
We (film users) cannot fall apart like this when there is a disruption in the supply chain. It has happened before and will continue to happen - ad infinitum.
We need, as a group, to hold fast and keep pressing on!

eddie · Apr 15, 2018

In this digital age, film photography requires a higher degree of commitment than it did years ago. It is more costly financially, needs more of our time ( including the need for most of us to acquire materials remotely) and, most importantly, demands that we adapt to an ever changing marketplace.
You’ve been negative ( no pun intended) about Fuji, Kodak, and Ferrania. If I felt as you do, I’d walk away from film, at least for awhile. Maybe absence will make the heart grow fonder, and you’ll find a way to be grateful for what we have, rather than despondent over what we’ve lost.

removed account4 · Apr 15, 2018

i'd just sell everythng and get out of film photography altogether
sounds like a real drag from your perspective ... have all this expensive gear
and the only film you use is gone, you use other films they either don't work or
they are discontinued, and the company you counted on is not doing film anymore
just sell it all off ...

faberryman · Apr 15, 2018

jnanian said:
i'd just sell everythng and get out of film photography altogether
sounds like a real drag from your perspective ... have all this expensive gear
and the only film you use is gone, you use other films they either don't work or
they are discontinued, and the company you counted on is not doing film anymore
just sell it all off ...

I'd urge him to keep one MF camera just in case. I was away from photography for quite a while and, when I came back, I was happy to have my camera available. If I had to go out and purchase one, I might not have bothered.

removed account4 · Apr 15, 2018

faberryman said:
I'd urge him to keep one MF camera just in case. I was away from photography for quite a while and, when I came back, I was happy to have my camera available. If I had to go out and purchase one, I might not have bothered.

you make a good point, but i figured get rid of it all its always going to be cheeper in a few years
and maybe he won't buy top of the line, seeing in a few years he might only be into it for a month
until some now-unknown indo-chinese company stops selling his favorite emulsion //
i guess we'll all be reading the thread ...
and in that case, he'd only be into it for a small amount of $$ and won't feel that it was a huge investment
locked up in equipment...
i can only imagine how ticked off the OP would be if he had thousands more locked up
in darkroom equipment ...

cowanw · Apr 15, 2018

I fully support you. I was devastated when Kodak pulled Kodacolor VR-G 400 back in "88; Nothing has had the same colour profile since. I refused to spend another penny on Kodak ever since and I have never shot a single colour photograph since either! I tried to sell my Topcon Auto Topcor but no one would buy it.
Just to offer a different perspective.

Bill Burk · Apr 15, 2018

jnanian said:
i'd just sell everythng and get out of film photography altogether
sounds like a real drag from your perspective ... have all this expensive gear
and the only film you use is gone, you use other films they either don't work or
they are discontinued, and the company you counted on is not doing film anymore
just sell it all off ...

Noooo this is ridiculous....

RattyMouse needs to shoot more film....

Just relax - there will always be black and white film that has not yet been exposed... Towards the end you'll just have to buy it on eBay.

removed account4 · Apr 15, 2018

Bill Burk said:
Noooo this is ridiculous....

RattyMouse needs to shoot more film....

Just relax - there will always be black and white film that has not yet been exposed... Towards the end you'll just have to buy it on eBay.

bill,
im just being as over the top and extreme as RattyMouse needs to be.
i am in total agreement with you there will always be sumtin,
and ebay is around and will always be around //
i was just being supportive of any extreme decision,
no matter how extreme ... the OP might make...
just in case he wiggs out, doesn't contact kumar
refuses to buy off of ebay or helpful photrio-ers &c ...

for me, the writing has been on the wall for all these BIG film companies
and i am pretty amazed that they are even still making film. and it doesn't surprise
me one bit when they cancel films people are used to. they've been doing that, and
raising prices, decades.

im happy my mindset is a litle different than the OP, i don't have an aversion to using a different format
i don't have even close to $9000 of stuff, including the 3 enlargers and IDK more than my share of cameras and lenses
i have and use ... and that i am not glued or dialed into 1 film and 1 format. and when something goes
i roll with it ... no point in doing anything else. i figure, we're lucky we have what we have, and i don't
dwell on what we don't, cause there really isn't a point ...

peter k. · Apr 15, 2018

Concepts and Illusions ... All of it ... of what is and isn't..

Smile... shoot ... its only film..

shashinzukuri · Apr 15, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Fuji once said recently that their film sales are 4% of what they were at their peak. Given that, even the entirety of their film product line is not core. 4% of any business is never a core part of the business. The vast majority of Fuji's analogue photographic business is in paper (color) and processing (in Asia).

I'm not sure if I'm not expressing my point clearly or you're just being deliberately obtuse, but consider what this means to Fuji when, even at 4% (or, meaningfully, less) of peak, even reversal film still warrants a mention in the annual business reports, and black and white doesn't. It's not "more than about money;" Fuji didn't discontinue that film to spite you. They didn't give the market an extra chance to save ACROS (or, more likely, they feel that they already gave the market an extra chance, and the market blew it) because they considered their entire black-and-white product line to be less than a footnote to a footnote, and they've felt this way for years - it's been written plain as day for anyone who cared to go look.

But... addressing "the other 50% of your post"... that doesn't change anything, does it? ACROS is gone whether it was a financial or political decision. Sic transit gloria mundi. Do what makes you feel right and true and justified. I personally don't buy cameras with money I ever expect to see again, but... maybe don't sell everything, but pick your one favorite and keep it? Cut your investment to what you'd be comfortable losing in a bad month on the stock market. Use the money to take your family on another vacation and take some new memories, with whatever film you feel might treat you well. Figure it out from there.

bascom49 · Apr 16, 2018

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

Cutting off the nose to spite the face" is an expression to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem: "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" is a warning against acting out of pique, or against pursuing revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger.[1]

voka_gsw · Apr 16, 2018

RattyMouse said:
I didnt even get the chance. Acros was gone before the announcement of its discontinuation was even confirmed.

That can't possibly be true? Fuji gave everyone a heads up one year ago Acros was going away, you were the one who posted it here.

klownshed · Apr 16, 2018

bascom49 said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

Cutting off the nose to spite the face" is an expression to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem: "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" is a warning against acting out of pique, or against pursuing revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger.[1]

Already +1’d ... Check out post #93 ;-)

It’s now also descending into martyr territory.

“a person who displays or exaggerates their discomfort or distress in order to obtain sympathy.”

RattyMouse · Apr 16, 2018

voka_gsw said:
That can't possibly be true? Fuji gave everyone a heads up one year ago Acros was going away, you were the one who posted it here.

You are very much mistaken.

RattyMouse · Apr 16, 2018

shashinzukuri said:
I'm not sure if I'm not expressing my point clearly or you're just being deliberately obtuse, but consider what this means to Fuji when, even at 4% (or, meaningfully, less) of peak, even reversal film still warrants a mention in the annual business reports,

You attach waaaaay more significance to this than I do. It's one line in ONE report. All the other presentation materials made to investors make no mention of non INSTAX film. None.

shashinzukuri said:
and black and white doesn't. It's not "more than about money;" Fuji didn't discontinue that film to spite you.

I didnt suggest that they did so your comment is utterly ridiculous.

shashinzukuri · Apr 16, 2018

RattyMouse said:
You attach waaaaay more significance to this than I do. It's one line in ONE report. All the other presentation materials made to investors make no mention of non INSTAX film. None.

Are you reading the actual reports or just looking at the PowerPoint slides? It's very far from "one line in one report"; this is a pattern going back more than a decade.

FujiFilm Financial Results for the Nine months ended December 31 2017 (page 14) said:
Note: The major products and services of each operating segment are as follows:
Imaging Solutions: Color films, digital cameras, color paper, services and equipment for photofinishing, instant photo systems and optical devices

(Direct download)

FujiFilm Financial Results for the Six months ended September 30 2017 (page 13) said:
Note: The major products and services of each operating segment are as follows:
Imaging Solutions: Color films, digital cameras, color paper, services and equipment for photofinishing, instant photo systems and optical devices

(Direct download)
...

FujiFilm Financial Results for the First Quarter ended June 30 2006 (Page 9) said:
Note: Major products and services of each operating segment are as follows:
Imaging Solutions
Color films, digital cameras, photofinishing equipment and color paper, chemicals and services for photofinishing

(Direct download)
...

FujiFilm Financial Results for the Fiscal Year ended March 31 2004 (Page 2) said:
The Fujifilm Group comprises Fuji Photo Film Co., Ltd., 233 subsidiaries and 53 affiliated companies that perform R&D, manufacturing, marketing, and service activities in the Group’s core business of segments of Imaging Solutions, Information Solutions, and Document Solutions. The Fujifilm Group main companies in each segment are outlined as follows:
Imaging Solutions:
Color films; film cameras; digital cameras; photofinishing equipment; color paper; chemicals and services for photofinishing; etc.
Fuji Photo Film Co., Ltd.; Fuji Photo Optical Co., Ltd.; FUJIFILM Microdevices Co., Ltd.; FUJICOLOR IMAGING SERVICE Co., Ltd.; Fuji Photo Film, Inc.; Fuji Photo Film B.V.; Fuji Photo Film U.S.A.; Inc., Fuji Photo Film (Europe) GmbH; Fujicolor Processing, Inc.; etc.

(Direct download)

As interesting trivia, since I'm digging through these reports: "film cameras" stop rating a mention in June 2004, and "instant photo systems" shows up for the first time in the March 2016 report.

Maybe It's Time

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