Maybe It's Time

Patrick Robert James · Apr 14, 2018

Lots of hot air in this thread....

I personally don't really care what kind of film I use, just give me enough so I can get used to it. I've switched several times in the last decade or so since Agfa went out. That was a shocker to me, but i adjusted and keep adjusting when I have to.

I just shrug my shoulders now when I get news like Acros. La di da.

Sirius Glass · Apr 14, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Over the decades I have seen films come and go. Instead of only watching them go, I stockpile both films that I regularly use and any desirable films that are being discontinued. I still have many rolls of Kodak UltraColor 400 in 135-36 and 120 as will as a case of unopened Kodak VividColor 160 4"x5" film boxes.

RattyMouse said:
I didnt even get the chance. Acros was gone before the announcement of its discontinuation was even confirmed.

Which is why I stockpile the films that I use. If I had been using Acros, I would not have been caught with my pants down. I have been posting my buying and storing habits for over eleven years, you have been here for the last seven years, so what is your excuse for not reading and not heeding my advice?

RattyMouse · Apr 14, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Which is why I stockpile the films that I use. If I had been using Acros, I would not have been caught with my pants down. I have been posting my buying and storing habits for over eleven years, you have been here for the last seven years, so what is your excuse for not reading and not heeding my advice?

I typically ignore your posts due to the vitriol often contained therein.

Sirius Glass · Apr 14, 2018

Unfortunately for you, it was at your own risk. I trust that you will be making better decisions in the future.

RattyMouse · Apr 14, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Unfortunately for you, it was at your own risk. I trust that you will be making better decisions in the future.

That's what this whole thread is about, my next decision. I'm trying to figure out if all the offers for my cameras are worth investigating further.

Sirius Glass · Apr 14, 2018

Remember if you sell a well loved camera, it may well cost you more to replace it, if and when you change your mind.

RattyMouse · Apr 14, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Remember if you sell a well loved camera, it may well cost you more to replace it, if and when you change your mind.

I do regret selling my Fujifilm GSW690. That was the first film camera I took to Asia in 1996. After that, my wife and I road tripped all over the US with that camera in tow. I ended up selling it when I dropped film for digital. I wish I still had it, for sentimental reasons.

But I can't keep nearly $9k locked up in film cameras. That is unacceptable.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 14, 2018

davidcopephotography said:
Hi. I'm one of the lurkers in the community here, but felt moved to say don't give up. I understand how disheartening all of this churn is in the film industry, and that one may feel personally like it's hard work to continue. My advice, for what it's worth, would be to take a step back and let your frustration run it's course without making any decisions about your hobby one way or the other.

Then examine how you feel later - maybe after switching off from photography if that's what you need to do - and hopefully you may come back with fresh perspective and see opportunities in other materials/processes.

It's definitely a blow when one's primary materials is lost, but also a time for creative reflection.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

Cheers,
David.

I think you're dreaming if you think you can sell your film gear without effort. Some of us can't even give it away to schools. that ship has sailed.the only market left are a few bargain hunters.

shashinzukuri · Apr 14, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Thank you for that. I have read a lot of Fujifilm financial reports but never saw the integrated reports before. First time I've ever seen non INSTAX film mentioned at any time, yet the item you pointed out is hardly definitive about their product line.

Right, it's not definitive (after all, this conspicuous disregard for black and white goes back to at least 2009, and Fuji had a full lineup back then), but it is pretty thorough, and as such seems like a pretty good insight into Fuji's corporate mind. The integrated reports go into details of Fuji's many business interests like the QuickShot disposable cameras, thermal paper, or... cosmetics and hair care products. If they considered black-and-white any more than a vestigial side-business, it seems reasonable for it to warrant at least a bullet point somewhere, but from the available evidence it looks like they considered black-and-white to be something less "core" to their company than even those.

removed account4 · Apr 14, 2018

michael_r said:
Not all junk for sure. For example, Adox's MCC 110 is a beautiful paper. But yes there's junk out there and I ain't interested in stepping backwards when it comes to materials.

i know what you mean, but if you get the itch in the years to come, there's ways to do it
even when kodak and ilford and ferrantia and lucky and shanghai and ... are gone//
you can get the chemicals at art craft and or bostic and sullivan or the formulary
and take your precious iphone or digicam smappies and turn them into archival enlargements
which may suit your type of photography more than you think ( you never know until you know _ ///
YMMV

removed account4 · Apr 14, 2018

RalphLambrecht said:
I think you're dreaming if you think you can sell your film gear without effort. Some of us can't even give it away to schools. that ship has sailed.the only market left are a few bargain hunters.

yup, bottom dwellers who only want a 900$ camera kit ( used 3x bought new for 2000$ ) for 50bucks
cheapskates are in charge now .. so its best to turn whatever you have into a lamp .. and sell it on etsy
ps. i am a bottom feeder too

bascom49 · Apr 15, 2018

To give up film photography over the discontinuation of Acros is pretty dramatic if not extreme. There are plenty of films and developer combinations that achieve great tonality and aesthetics. Just move on and look forward to new images and enjoy the journey exploring new work with new (to you) film.

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 15, 2018

Aside from the reciprocity characteristics, I never got the hype over Acros. I'm more than happy with my FP4+, Tri-X, and Foma 200. And all of them are available in the sizes I shoot (well, I can't afford Tri-X in 14x17, but that's a separate story). I just bought a Canham 8x10 (used, but still). If you feel you have $9K invested in cameras and you are worried they'll become valueless because one film by one manufacturer was discontinued, then what about me? I've got FOUR Canhams (5x7, 5x12, 8x10, 14x17), a museum-grade Gundlach Wizard 11x14, the restoration project 12x15 Watson, two Rollei 2.8E bodies and a Tele-Rollei, an RZ67 with 37, 50, 65, 110 and 180 lenses, my Lomo Belair with both Russian glass lenses, and probably 20 lenses for large format. Not to mention the film holders for all of those large format cameras! If it ever came down to it, and nobody made film any more for any of those cameras, I could always pick wet plate back up again and shoot away with my large format gear. Or do daguerreotypes in the smaller cameras. Or start making calotypes. It's not going to be as convenient, but since the advent of digital, when has film photography been about convenience?

klownshed · Apr 15, 2018

Sometimes people should worry less about the quality of the film and more about the quality of their photographs.

A while back I visited a gallery where they had some fabulous platinum prints on display by various well known photographers*

I came away being incredibly impressed by some fantastic photography. I have no idea what film any of the photos were taken with and at the time the type if film used never entered my head.

Whilst I’m sure each photographer had their favourites films and would rightfully be pissed off if any of them went away, none of the photos were good because of the film stock used.

As for the OP, if you were already getting fed up with film photography (and/or photography itself) I can see how the loss of your favourite film could tip you over the edge. But the loss of Acros should be a relatively minor part of your decision. If not you could be cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Maybe a break from it all for a while will give you some clarity.

*Bryan Adams is a really good photographer. Who knew?! ;-)

Toyo · Apr 15, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
I know what you mean.
Lots of my films of choice have gone extinct, smo I have frozen stocks of, but it's not the same especially since some are over 30 years past date.
But, I've always found a new film to learn - and often enough been pleasantly surprised, although I've yet to find anything like Agfa APX 25. Or Panatomic, the tonality is pure cream.

Exactly.
I used to shoot Agfapan 100 and loved it for its beautiful tones and grain structure.
It disappeared eons ago, but this has only spurred me on to use other film and learn its strengths and shortcomings.
I now shoot a lot of Fomapan - a film I hadn't even heard of when I was an Agfapan lover.
Adapt, learn new skills and create images.
T

E. von Hoegh · Apr 15, 2018

Toyo said:
Exactly.
I used to shoot Agfapan 100 and loved it for its beautiful tones and grain structure.
It disappeared eons ago, but this has only spurred me on to use other film and learn its strengths and shortcomings.
I now shoot a lot of Fomapan - a film I hadn't even heard of when I was an Agfapan lover.
Adapt, learn new skills and create images.
T

I've been thinking I should get some of the Ferrania and see what it does.

Toyo · Apr 15, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
I've been thinking I should get some of the Ferrania and see what it does.

Could be worth a look for sure.
I think it is only available in 35mm, but I might be mistaken there
T

RattyMouse · Apr 15, 2018

shashinzukuri said:
Right, it's not definitive (after all, this conspicuous disregard for black and white goes back to at least 2009, and Fuji had a full lineup back then), but it is pretty thorough, and as such seems like a pretty good insight into Fuji's corporate mind. The integrated reports go into details of Fuji's many business interests like the QuickShot disposable cameras, thermal paper, or... cosmetics and hair care products. If they considered black-and-white any more than a vestigial side-business, it seems reasonable for it to warrant at least a bullet point somewhere, but from the available evidence it looks like they considered black-and-white to be something less "core" to their company than even those.

Fuji once said recently that their film sales are 4% of what they were at their peak. Given that, even the entirety of their film product line is not core. 4% of any business is never a core part of the business. The vast majority of Fuji's analogue photographic business is in paper (color) and processing (in Asia).

RattyMouse · Apr 15, 2018

bascom49 said:
To give up film photography over the discontinuation of Acros is pretty dramatic if not extreme.

Easy for you to say. I shot Acros 100 *exclusively* for over 6 years. There isnt a single ISO100 monochrome roll of non Acros film in my archives. I reflected on that line just a bit now and have to make an exception. I did shoot a few rolls of Kentmere 100 in 35mm format, but I'm primarily a 120 shooter.

And if you read my OP more thoroughly, this i not just about Acros. That was only half the point.

RattyMouse · Apr 15, 2018

RalphLambrecht said:
I think you're dreaming if you think you can sell your film gear without effort. Some of us can't even give it away to schools. that ship has sailed.the only market left are a few bargain hunters.

Depends on the gear. You think I'll have trouble selling a GF670, GF670W, or TX-1?

Toyo · Apr 15, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Depends on the gear. You think I'll have trouble selling a GF670, GF670W, or TX-1?

So sell your gear and move on.
If you want to take photographs later then start again.
Stop beating yourself up over it - make a decision
Safe journey to you
T

bascom49 · Apr 15, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Easy for you to say. I shot Acros 100 *exclusively* for over 6 years. There isnt a single ISO100 monochrome roll of non Acros film in my archives. I reflected on that line just a bit now and have to make an exception. I did shoot a few rolls of Kentmere 100 in 35mm format, but I'm primarily a 120 shooter.

And if you read my OP more thoroughly, this i not just about Acros. That was only half the point.

I do get it and I did understand your point(s).
I also get that you have a collection of camera gear you may never be able to replace if you sell them. I also get the skill in composition, exposure, metering, development, printing, etc that shooting all those rolls of Acros gave you.
Given that you chose to shot only one film you probably have a better sense for how the variables such as agitation, dilution, metering and the rest effect an image. Like it or not these are skills unique to film photography that you have, skills that you will always have even if you go digital, you just no longer will be able to use them.

To throw all of that away is yes, in my opinion, drastic if not extreme.

canuhead · Apr 15, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Depends on the gear. You think I'll have trouble selling a GF670, GF670W, or TX-1?

The TX-1, with the trinity of lenses will sell easily, if priced accurately. The 30 is the most desirable of the three and I regret not getting one when they were more affordable.

Bill Burk · Apr 15, 2018

RattyMouse,

I am comforted that I know how to test film. I long-held that a "certain" film is important, but I have found that it's no longer the case. I merely need a slow film 100 speed or less (and this film doesn't have to be fresh) and a fast film 400 speed or more (this film has to be fresh). So long as such film exists I can continue to shoot film.

I understand your hesitance to try Kodak film, but I believe the issue was with the ink as it dried on the master backing paper roll, leaving behind some fugitive agent or gas that sensitized the film in the vicinity of where the imprint ink touched black on the take-up reel after imprinting. I think once they got to the bottom of it that issue won't come back, much as the mustard grass the cows ate... never came back.

I'd get small quantities (a brick) of any film, test one roll, and then use it if it works, try something else if it doesn't. I plan to repeat this throughout my life.

By the way, I know you didn't have this option, but I just stopped shooting 120 for a while, I've got 4x5 and 35mm cameras that are inherently immune to the backing paper issue.

RattyMouse · Apr 15, 2018

Bill Burk said:
By the way, I know you didn't have this option, but I just stopped shooting 120 for a while, I've got 4x5 and 35mm cameras that are inherently immune to the backing paper issue.

I shot 30 rolls of 35mm in my TX-1 while in Japan recently. That's still medium format resolution so I enjoyed that quite a lot. I am not a big 35mm shooter otherwise. I did shoot 4 rolls of TMAX400 in Kyoto worry free since Kodak has not managed to find a way to botch 35mm film. Yet.

Maybe It's Time

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