Maybe It's Time

P.johnson14 · Apr 13, 2018

This is how I felt after Fuji discontinued the various peel apart lines. When I saw the writing on the wall, I refused to buy any emulsion from them, other than instant, because I knew I'd love it and it would be discontinued.

I started using 35 and 120, and there are some good stocks out there. For those who are into BW, Ilford seems to have the best outlook right now. They right sized their business earlier than the others, and FP4 and HP5 are very popular and will probably hang on the longest if anything happens to Ilford.

I do this to relax and have fun. Learning new stuff is part of the fun for me, but I know it isn't what everyone wants. I walk away from some of my other hobbies on a regular basis, before I burn out on them. Then, when I come back I still have a good time, without there being any bad feelings towards the people or the hobbies.

bdial · Apr 13, 2018

Products get dropped, valued companies go out of business, it's always been true. I'd love to be able to buy a fresh roll of Plus-X again, but it's not likely to happen. Things change, if your motivation is dependent on one specific product, then it probably is time for a change of endeavor.

Ces1um · Apr 13, 2018

RattyMouse said:
^This. This is what I'm feeling and what compelled me to write my post.

Well, I can definitely respect that answer. Lately I've been discouraged myself. I used to enjoy film photography for the cameras, then it switched to enjoying the images I was creating. The issue I face now is I can't consistently produce beautiful photos every time. I'm not talking about the mechanical skills- I find I only produce 1-2 images per roll that I actually think have some value and are worth keeping. The others are just miscellaneous shots of no real consequence and that really bothers me. Leaves you feeling like a one hit wonder. It also doesn't help that it's still winter here and I'm so sick of shooting only black and white because there is no colour to be seen anywhere. You can only shoot so many snowmen on a field of snow during a snowstorm before you're ready to open a vein just to see some vibrancy!

BrianShaw · Apr 13, 2018

RattyMouse said:
^This. This is what I'm feeling and what compelled me to write my post.

That is very important. I know I’ve left other hobbies and one prior career field because it no longer was satisfying. One should not be a slave to their hobbies or careers, or be made bad because they make a personal choice. Good luck with your decision and, if you choose, the sale of your gear.

Ko.Fe. · Apr 13, 2018

If you can't live without 120 grainless films, but you are OK Fuij X digital, buy Fuji digital MF. Didn't they came with digital MF in 2017?

Personally I have no use fior Fuji and Kodak 120 films. Happy with 135 film cameras and Kentmere films. It doesn't really matter on prints, which film. IMO.

RattyMouse · Apr 13, 2018

Maybe if I sell off my three main shooting cameras and stick with my cheaper cameras I'd feel better. Having nearly $8k locked up in film cameras feeling dismal about film's future may be a source of most of my agitation that I'm feeling right now. I'm thinking that if I were just shooting my Nikon FM2n, I could be much more relaxed.

Just a thought.

RattyMouse · Apr 13, 2018

Ko.Fe. said:
If you can't live without 120 grainless films, but you are OK Fuij X digital, buy Fuji digital MF. Didn't they came with digital MF in 2017?

Personally I have no use fior Fuji and Kodak 120 films. Happy with 135 film cameras and Kentmere films. It doesn't really matter on prints, which film. IMO.

Fujifilm isn't going to get a single $1 from me. Ever.

guangong · Apr 13, 2018

Ces1um said:
Well, I can definitely respect that answer. Lately I've been discouraged myself. I used to enjoy film photography for the cameras, then it switched to enjoying the images I was creating. The issue I face now is I can't consistently produce beautiful photos every time. I'm not talking about the mechanical skills- I find I only produce 1-2 images per roll that I actually think have some value and are worth keeping. The others are just miscellaneous shots of no real consequence and that really bothers me. Leaves you feeling like a one hit wonder. It also doesn't help that it's still winter here and I'm so sick of shooting only black and white because there is no colour to be seen anywhere. You can only shoot so many snowmen on a field of snow during a snowstorm before you're ready to open a vein just to see some vibrancy!

One or two shots out of a roll of 35mm...sounds pretty good to me....actually much better than me, and I an a rather frugal shooter. G.B. Shaw put the odds equall to salmon successfully going upstream. Much worse odds than 2 out of 36.

Luckless · Apr 13, 2018

I only used a bit of that film, so I'm not really impacted all that greatly, but I am disappointed to see it go.

One of my long term goals is to design and build my own small (or maybe mid) scale coating machine that is suitable to be configured for any number of film types, and to make it as open-source hardware so others could build it as well. I doubt I could ever get a hobby design process down to the cost effectiveness of just buying my own film, so I don't think it would get all that much use in the next few years, but it would be nice to have as an artistic safety net: Worse case scenario for businesses means that the photography community still has a source for film. Not something I would ever want to run as a for-profit setup, but rather as part of a non-profit artist co-op system.

Of course another option to fight against this might be pushing for government art subsidies to convince companies to keep film flowing?

pbromaghin · Apr 13, 2018

guangong said:
One or two shots out of a roll of 35mm...sounds pretty good to me.

+1

faberryman · Apr 13, 2018

The five stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. Good luck with dealing with your grief at losing ACROS.

pbromaghin · Apr 13, 2018

I don't know why everybody worries about Harman being owned by Pemberstone. What they most certainly are NOT, is a bank trying to rape, pillage, plunder, and throw away. Their strategy is to buy up small/medium sized companies that are leaders in their own niche market and bring them large-company resources to help them grow. I can't think of a much better place for Ilford to have landed when the principals who brought them out of bankruptcy decided to retire and cash in their chips.

peter k. · Apr 13, 2018

faberryman said:
The five stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

That's great, never thought of it that way..
All has to be gone through for it all to disappear.

RattyMouse · Apr 13, 2018

pbromaghin said:
I don't know why everybody worries about Harman being owned by Pemberstone. What they most certainly are NOT, is a bank trying to rape, pillage, plunder, and throw away. Their strategy is to buy up small/medium sized companies that are leaders in their own niche market and bring them large-company resources to help them grow. I can't think of a much better place for Ilford to have landed when the principals who brought them out of bankruptcy decided to retire and cash in their chips.

I've been part of that. It's a horrible experience. I worked for a 200 million dollar company. Private equity bought us and then several other companies, assembled them into a 1.5 billion dollar company and sold them off. The employee turnover during that time was nearly 20% per year. Tons of layoffs and even more people leaving due to the total disruption of a well run business. No one I know of works at my old company anymore. 8 years on there has been 100% turnover. Meanwhile the assembled company is hardly an impressive competitor to us. Not impressive at all. Private equity put together what looks great on paper, but in execution is pretty sub standard.

I'd resign immediately if private equity bought where I am working now. The sooner I exit the madness of private equity, the sooner I escape to a new job.

Wallendo · Apr 13, 2018

Fuji is(was?) the most profitable company making film, but maybe that profitability was due to corporate practices where low volume businesses are closed.
EK may find a buyer (or debtor) to take over their film business.
Harman may be owned by private equity, but prior to that was privately owned by a small group of investor-managers who sold off the company, but film availability hasn't changed. In the abscence of any new products from Harman, there is no reason to believe that Pemberton has any intention of flipping the company. The real risk for Harman is what will happen when the have to vacate their current facility when their lease expires. Will Pemberton invest the capital to relocate the equipment? Nevertheless, 7 years is a long time and the company would likely coat as much film as possible before ceasing manufacture.
Foma is quietly continuing to manufacture film, and even extend their line a little.

faberryman · Apr 13, 2018

Wallendo said:
The real risk for Harman is what will happen when the have to vacate their current facility when their lease expires. Will Pemberton invest the capital to relocate the equipment? Nevertheless, 7 years is a long time and the company would likely coat as much film as possible before ceasing manufacture.

That assumes the landlord is not amenable to extending the lease. I understand that the property is adjacent to an airport and is not zoned for residential redevelopment. Leasing to a business like Ilford may be its highest and best use. No reason to assume the worst. I am sure the parties will be in negotiations well in advance of the expiration date so that decisions can be made in something other than a crisis environment. That's not to say a meteor won't hit the factory in the interim.

Sirius Glass · Apr 13, 2018

The OP should just send all his photographic equipment to me and I will donate each camera to a deserving cash poor film photographer.

Arklatexian · Apr 13, 2018

eddie said:
I don't know how long you've been using film, but anyone who has been using film for a few decades has experienced the loss of favorite materials. Those with a passion for photography adapt. I think, if your interest in photography is real, you will too.

How about someone who has been in this foolishness for over 50 years. About the only "sensitized" good that has been around a large part of that time for me is TriX roll film in its manifestations. Most of the chemicals are about the same if you still use the same chemicals as in the past. As in all of life , the only constant in photography is "change". On the whole, in film photography, things have gotten better, not worse. There are more different brands of LF cameras available than at any time in my life. There are some really good B&W films out there that did not exist 40 or 50 years ago that you can develop in your bathroom or kitchen, IF YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS and with a darkroom, permanent or temporary, you can make as fine prints as anyone. Not nearly as easy nor as true with color. I wouldn't know, I always sent mine out for processing (transparencies) and that is part of the "change". My point, I guess, enjoy the hobby as it is or find something else to do. I once kept and exhibited show bantam chickens. If you have room, I can recommend that as a hobby.......Regards!

Arklatexian · Apr 13, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
The OP should just send all his photographic equipment to me and I will donate each camera to a deserving cash poor film photographer.

Pray tell, Sirius just who might that be. From what I read in this group, all of us are "deserving cash poor photographers".........Regards!

cowanw · Apr 13, 2018

Frederick H. Evans quit photography when his favorite platinum papers were discontinued. You got to admire someone who sticks to their guns.

faberryman · Apr 13, 2018

cowanw said:
Frederick H. Evans quit photography when his favorite platinum papers were discontinued. You got to admire someone who sticks to their guns.

That was sometime around 1915 as I recall. He couldn't be bothered to coat his own papers as every practitioner of platnium/palladium has done for the past hundred years. I'm not sure what guns he was sticking too. I guess it was just too inconvenient for him.

pbromaghin · Apr 13, 2018

faberryman said:
That assumes the landlord is not amenable to extending the lease. I understand that the property is adjacent to an airport and is not zoned for residential redevelopment. Leasing to a business like Ilford may be its highest and best use. No reason to assume the worst. I am sure the parties will be in negotiations well in advance of the expiration date so that decisions can be made in something other than a crisis environment. That's not to say a meteor won't hit the factory in the interim.

Back when the Harman purchase was first announced, I saw that Pemberstone also owned and/or managed a lot of commercial property. I suspect it would not be outside their ability to find a right-sized facility to move the factory to, if they wanted.

4season · Apr 13, 2018

davidcopephotography said:
My advice, for what it's worth, would be to take a step back and let your frustration run it's course without making any decisions about your hobby one way or the other.

I think that''s sound advice, but I'd also suggest that if the OP still feels that way after a certain amount of time has passed, then it may indeed be time to move on.

Sirius Glass · Apr 13, 2018

oldtimermetoo said:
Pray tell, Sirius just who might that be. From what I read in this group, all of us are "deserving cash poor photographers".........Regards!

But some are more financially stressed than others.

Alan W · Apr 13, 2018

I've seen the death of several film emulsions in my time,and the ones that haven't died have "New" formulas.Tri x today doesn't look like tri x from the sixties.If they stop making something you use something else or move on.Hopefully you will find something else to use in place of Acros.I really,really loved Agfa APX 100,but they don't make it like they used to.Among others,I use Tmax 100 and if they stop making that I'll use something else.The image is the thing,surely.

Maybe It's Time

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