Mauve sheen and partly opaque blacks on mono negatives - cause?

peterB1966 · Apr 1, 2023

I just developed some medium format Kodak TMY 400 at home for the first time with brand new (well, opened on the same day) chemicals, and the resulting negs have a mauve sheen and the clear spaces between frames are grey… could this be from not rinsing properly?

(Side note: when I first rinsed the film before inserting the developer, I used the hot tap by accident… it only got decently warm, though, no more than that, but could it have affected the final outcome?)

Anon Ymous · Apr 1, 2023

A photo would be nice, but it sounds like you underfixed. What fixer did you use and how much did you fix for?

Rick A · Apr 1, 2023

TMY needs at least six minutes in fixer and a lot more washing than most other films to clear the magenta (mauve) stain. Refix your film. and wash.

peterB1966 · Apr 1, 2023

Anon Ymous said:
A photo would be nice, but it sounds like you underfixed. What fixer did you use and how much did you fix for?

Sorry, have not scanned it yet, never mind printed it - it's too crap :-(

Rick A said:
TMY needs at least six minutes in fixer and a lot more washing than most other films to clear the magenta (mauve) stain. Refix your film. and wash.

I initially did it at 8 to 10 mins, but have added another 5, no difference.

OOPS DISCLOSURE: looking at the fixative bottle, I was supposed to dilute it 1+4, which I didn't (I did dilute the developer properly)... would this make a difference in this regard?

Notes: processed in Ilford ID 11 for 15 mins, aand the undiluted Ilford Rapid Developer for 8-10 initially, and now an additional 5 mins. The first rinse was under a trickle of water for 20 mins, this time I just threw it into a basin of water and replaced the water after about 10 mins.

Anon Ymous · Apr 1, 2023

IIRC, undiluted fixer is slow. Make some fixer solution and refix.

peterB1966 · Apr 1, 2023

Anon Ymous said:
IIRC, undiluted fixer is slow. Make some fixer solution and refix.

Who would of thought! Seems counter-intuitive, but will try.
So if it hasn't fixed properly, would that account for the clouding of the frame dividers?

Anon Ymous · Apr 1, 2023

peterB1966 said:
Who would of thought! Seems counter-intuitive, but will try.
So if it hasn't fixed properly, would that account for the clouding of the frame dividers?

Yes, underfixed film is cloudy.

MattKing · Apr 1, 2023

Anon Ymous said:
IIRC, undiluted fixer is slow. Make some fixer solution and refix.

peterB1966 said:
Who would of thought! Seems counter-intuitive, but will try.

It is always important to realize that the water we use to dilute things is actually a very active chemical itself. And most things we use it with are designed taking into account its presence.
As an example, classic HC-110 concentrate doesn't develop film at all!

Xylo · Apr 1, 2023

From memory (I haven't used TMY in a very long time), the purple tint is pretty hard to wash off

reddesert · Apr 1, 2023

The purple tint in TMY will often come out either in the fixer or in the wash aid (Perma Wash, hypo clearing agent, or similar).

Do the fix and wash again. Regardless of whether you used too-strong fixer solution or too weak, etc, you can always refix and rewash. You can also do a little experiment aka clip test: take a couple of pieces of undeveloped film leader, dunk them in a small amount of fixer (try both full strength and proper dilution), and time how long it takes them to clear. It is generally recommended to fix for twice the clearing time.

peterB1966 · Apr 2, 2023

Woo-hoo - the mauve is gone! Thanks, it was from diluting the fixer as indicated on the bottle, and doing it for a cautious 12 minutes... Not too sure the clouding is any better, but that may be from an accidental exposure - it truly has been an idiot's learning curve...

Anon Ymous · Apr 2, 2023

peterB1966 said:
Woo-hoo - the mauve is gone! Thanks, it was from diluting the fixer as indicated on the bottle, and doing it for a cautious 12 minutes... Not too sure the clouding is any better, but that may be from an accidental exposure - it truly has been an idiot's learning curve...

The problem with exposing underfixed (or unfixed) materials to light is that they can print-out, in which case refixing can't solve this problem.

Bill Burk · Apr 2, 2023

Underfixed would be yellowish and usually a streak down the middle lengthwise.

Magenta stain washes out in water. I wash 4x5 TMY2 in porcelain trays. It takes about four to five changes of water for the dye to come out. Because I wash this way, I can see the magenta dye in the tray and when dumping the tray.

Doremus Scudder · Apr 2, 2023

peterB1966,

Be aware that undiluted fixer doesn't work well. The water is needed so the fixing chemicals can do their job. What you are calling "cloudy" may be fog from a light strike or other out-of-camera exposure. Fog is different from the cloudiness caused by underfixing. This latter appears as a milky, opaque or semi-opaque "mask" on the film, either overall or locally.

The magenta tint of Tmax films is caused by sensitizing dyes that are difficult to wash out. Usually adequate fixing takes care of this. Many even extend fixing time to get rid of the tint, which won't hurt film as long as the fixing time is not really long (like 30 minutes or more).

However, I've had problems with TMY keeping a really dark tint even with extended fixation. In those cases, a bath in a mild alkaline solution before the wash does the job superbly. I use a bit of sodium carbonate to make a weak solution, but sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or even the used developer works well too. Try that if your tint problem is stubborn.

Best,

Doremus

Xylo · Apr 2, 2023

Doremus Scudder said:
However, I've had problems with TMY keeping a really dark tint even with extended fixation. In those cases, a bath in a mild alkaline solution before the wash does the job superbly. I use a bit of sodium carbonate to make a weak solution, but sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or even the used developer works well too. Try that if your tint problem is stubborn.

Didn't know that trick. I'll have to try it out when I develop a roll of this stuff. Last time I ended-up washing for about 20 minutes and there was still a bit of dye left.

Mauve sheen and partly opaque blacks on mono negatives - cause?

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