Matika Wilbur: Native American Photographer

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 15, 2021

jtk said:
We regularly see the work of many Native American photographers in New Mexico and Arizona.

Happy to see some of the work of this woman, who hails from another part of Native America. I like her exhaustive plans and would like to see her prints.

One of the issues that tires Navajo people (I have friends among them) is that they've been reduced to subjects of anthropology and tourist interest. They're modern Americans who enjoy a unique independent/parallel nationality.

Tourist interests goes both ways. Their Monument Valley which is part of the Navajo Nation for example has made them a lot of money from the tourist trade. They provide tour guides and even own a beautiful motel called The View in the valley that caters to tourists, my wife and I being two of them who stayed there a couple of days. It has a beautiful shop where much of its trade is sold. We bought a fairly expensive Navajo vase. Here in the picture they're selling Navajo advertised art in the Valley.

When we were in Santa Fe, I believe at the Georgia O'Keeffe Museum, there were oil paintings by Indian artists from different tribes. The little ID cards next to the artworks indicated which tribe they were from. Why? Weren't they using their tribal affiliations to make their art more interesting to the potential purchaser?

Here's one painted by Alice Loiselle, Chippewa as stated on the card.

BrianShaw · Dec 15, 2021

Both are nice places to visit. Was there any photography being sold in either location?

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 15, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Both are nice places to visit. Was there any photography being sold in either location?

I believe so. But I don't really recall as I was busy with my own photography. Santa Fe in general had a lot of art, some of it being some very interesting photography for sale.

Helge · Dec 15, 2021

Not really a fan of the colourization.
It’s cliché as fuck, especially WRT to the stereotypical or standardized view of the subject(s). And it’s really not that well done.

jtk · Dec 15, 2021

Alan Edward Klein said:
Tourist interests goes both ways. Their Monument Valley which is part of the Navajo Nation for example has made them a lot of money from the tourist trade. They provide tour guides and even own a beautiful motel called The View in the valley that caters to tourists, my wife and I being two of them who stayed there a couple of days. It has a beautiful shop where much of its trade is sold. We bought a fairly expensive Navajo vase. Here in the picture they're selling Navajo advertised art in the Valley.

When we were in Santa Fe, I believe at the Georgia O'Keeffe Museum, there were oil paintings by Indian artists from different tribes. The little ID cards next to the artworks indicated which tribe they were from. Why? Weren't they using their tribal affiliations to make their art more interesting to the potential purchaser?

Here's one painted by Alice Loiselle, Chippewa as stated on the card.

There is a profound difference between heavily marketed nicknacks, motel labor, and the realities of the vast majority of Native Americans. My partner and I have long had close relationships with a dozen reservation members, two engaged in Toyota shop training, two in graduate school (chemistry and social science) and others herding sheep, raising families, driving school busses, political activism etc.

It's true that Navajo Nation makes a lot of money from tourists ... that may or may not be a good thing for members, including those who drift from the rez (more live/work/study in Albuquerque than in any Navajo chapter).

jtk · Dec 15, 2021

BrianShaw said:
http://www.project562.com/

Brian, thanks for that important link !

Arthurwg · Dec 15, 2021

jtk said:
Zone System can contribute to color and even digital practices.

Ansel wasn't a player in modern times... Minor remains more significant today in "previsualization" aspect of Zones (the aspect many seem to miss)

Maybe, but MW was a crackpot.

jtk · Dec 15, 2021

Arthurwg said:
Maybe, but MW was a crackpot.

Maybe, but my impression of MW students (I've known a few) is that they're more individualistic than AA students. One doesn't see MW photos on motel walls fwiw.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 15, 2021

jtk said:
There is a profound difference between heavily marketed nicknacks, motel labor, and the realities of the vast majority of Native Americans. My partner and I have long had close relationships with a dozen reservation members, two engaged in Toyota shop training, two in graduate school (chemistry and social science) and others herding sheep, raising families, driving school busses, political activism etc.

It's true that Navajo Nation makes a lot of money from tourists ... that may or may not be a good thing for members, including those who drift from the rez (more live/work/study in Albuquerque than in any Navajo chapter).

What would you say about the vast marketing of egyptology, the Pharaohs, pyramids, and the Valley of the Kings like King Tut. Egypt has made millions selling its culture and history and archeology. They're very proud of it. It brings tourists to Egypt from around the world. The world is interested in it. And it brings in a lot of resources to help all of their people and nation. I'm sure most Egyptians aren't involved in that trade. Yet they are very proud of their heritage. Why shouldn't;t the Navajo be similarly proud of their heritage? Would an Egyptian engineer working in Cairo not be proud of their past and present?

BrianShaw · Dec 15, 2021

Money, jobs, better housing, and social visibility is a good thing. Especially for populations where they have been dirt poor and succumb to alcoholism and drug use. It builds pride. Many moons ago I spent a week on a reservation as a guest. A year before a casino was built. When I was there tiny run-down dwellings were being replaced by modern homes. If one closed one eye and ignored the fact that the mafia probably really ran the casino, one could feel good about the benefit to the reservation. This photographer, in the photos I’ve seen, shows the pride of her sitters. They deserve to be proud and not poor and not downtrodden or addicted.

And about Egyptians… Aren’t we discussing Native Americans and photography?

jtk · Dec 17, 2021

Brian's thinking might have been OK twenty years ago but seems today to be patronizing. He's got the advantage of having spent some real time among the people. The fact that I have lived among them for a decade doesn't allow me to patronize them either.

White man's burden is a fundamentally destructive religion and it drives many tourists who, of course identify themselves as "photographers".

Yes, poverty is a big issue in Native America but to reduce a native society that way, even with good intentions is literally the same as photographing a gathering of Jewish rabbis in Brooklyn with the same sort of preconceptions... by a van load on Midwestern Unitarian tourists.

Think of this: pretending one is doing good for Black people because one stays at a wildly expensive hotel near today's Harlem...

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 17, 2021

jtk said:
Brian's thinking might have been OK twenty years ago but seems today to be patronizing. He's got the advantage of having spent some real time among the people. The fact that I have lived among them for a decade doesn't allow me to patronize them either.

White man's burden is a fundamentally destructive religion and it drives many tourists who, of course identify themselves as "photographers".

Yes, poverty is a big issue in Native America but to reduce a native society that way, even with good intentions is literally the same as photographing a gathering of Jewish rabbis in Brooklyn with the same sort of preconceptions... by a van load on Midwestern Unitarian tourists.

Think of this: pretending one is doing good for Black people because one stays at a wildly expensive hotel near today's Harlem...

Arguing that the tribes' economic and social problems are caused or not caused by tourists is not comprehensible to me any more than blacks or Jews are affected substantially by tourists visiting Harlem or Brooklyn. Where do you get that from? Maybe I'm missing something and would be glad to correct my understanding if you'd explain.

jtk · Dec 17, 2021

Alan tourists might not want to pretend that they contribute to tribal Americans at all, not nearly as much as they might by staying home and, if allowed by spouses, photographing their own culture.

Google Bill Owen, champion suburban California photographer.

BrianShaw · Dec 17, 2021

LOL… no, not intended to be patronizing nor do I think it is. In addition to that one experience I spent a year working in Gallup and Grants and another year in Las Vegas NM. I even had a few friends (I hope) that I worked closely with who were native tribe members. At that time neither had a casino. The casino example was in AZ… and they were grateful for the increased prosperity and living conditions. Elders said so; I didn’t make it up.

But let’s talk photography so the thread doesn’t end up in the dreaded sh@tbox.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 17, 2021

BrianShaw said:
LOL… no, not intended to be patronizing nor do I think it is. In addition to that one experience I spent a year working in Gallup and Grants and another year in Las Vegas NM. I even had a few friends (I hope) that I worked closely with who were native tribe members. But let’s talk photography so the thread doesn’t end up in the dreaded sh@tbox.

Combining the two as follows: The Navajo don;t allow tourists to go into the back areas off the main valley trail in Monument Valley without a Navajo guide. However, some of them are expert photographers who know and can help you set up the best shots.

BrianShaw · Dec 17, 2021

Yes, Alan… definitely worth supporting. Photographers or not, the Navajo guides know their business and what looks good. I really hate it when photographers whine about that situation. Other tribes shun cameras and that should be respected also.

Ms Wilbur had the full cooperation of her subjects and, she says, let them portray themselves in her images.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 17, 2021

Here's a Navajo shooting a tourist on a horse who can brag when he gets home. See the second picture for the behind-the-scenes view.

Sirius Glass · Dec 17, 2021

Alan Edward Klein said:
Combining the two as follows: The Navajo don;t allow tourists to go into the back areas off the main valley trail in Monument Valley without a Navajo guide. However, some of them are expert photographers who know and can help you set up the best shots.

When in places such as Monument Valley, we are their guests in the Navajo Nation and as guests we are expected to follow some simple rules of basic courtesy:

keep vehicles on established dirt or paved roads, that is do not widen the road or park on the land except were permitted.
do not photograph homes, kivas, or other buildings without clear and explicit approval
do not photograph Navajo people without clear and explicit approval

These are a few of the rules I recall, but basically we are their guests and they wish to be treated with the same dignity that they would accord us in our homes.

BrianShaw · Dec 17, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
simple rules of basic curtsy:

courtesy. (Funny typo!)

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 17, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
When in places such as Monument Valley, we are their guests in the Navajo Nation and as guests we are expected to follow some simple rules of basic curtsy:

keep vehicles on established dirt or paved roads, that is do not widen the road or park on the land except were permitted.

do not photograph homes, kivas, or other buildings without clear and explicit approval

do not photograph Navajo people without clear and explicit approval

These are a few of the rules I recall, but basically we are their guests and they wish to be treated with the same dignity that they would accord us in our homes.

I never said you shouldn't follow their rules and not treat them with respect. My wife and I did and really enjoyed our stay in their motel for two nights. Their meals were great although no alcoholic beverages are served. We originally hired a guide for the outback. But when I learned it could be rough, I cancelled to save my back. We just drove the central valley which runs 13+ miles. No guide is necessary for that and there are enough nice shots to keep most photographers happy.

Sirius Glass · Dec 17, 2021

BrianShaw said:
courtesy. (Funny typo!)

The second mistake of my life.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 17, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
The second mistake of my life.

Ok I'll bite.

Sirius Glass · Dec 17, 2021

Alan Edward Klein said:
Ok I'll bite.

The first time I thought that I had made a mistake, but it turned out that I was right all along.

jtk · Dec 18, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
When in places such as Monument Valley, we are their guests in the Navajo Nation and as guests we are expected to follow some simple rules of basic courtesy:

keep vehicles on established dirt or paved roads, that is do not widen the road or park on the land except were permitted.

do not photograph homes, kivas, or other buildings without clear and explicit approval

do not photograph Navajo people without clear and explicit approval

These are a few of the rules I recall, but basically we are their guests and they wish to be treated with the same dignity that they would accord us in our homes.

Yes AND Remember that only a tiny minority ever visit tourist destinations or tourist traps, note that per capita more have done more military service than whites (ww2 and vietnam...not just code talkers), and their relations with their extended families (clans) are far more significant at several levels than the rest of us experience.

jtk · Dec 18, 2021

For those without health issues I'll highly recommend hiking the length of Canyon de Chelly with a guided group and/or solo with an authorized guide...connect either at Park HQ. I've done both. Horses are also available, might make sense if your experienced. Sadly there are also vehicular resources.

Strongly suggest reading about Kit Carson and the long death walk out of Canyon de Chelly. Highly recommend book Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides to put a lot of Navajo reality in historic context...highly readable.

Matika Wilbur: Native American Photographer

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency