Matching film looks

ParkerSmithPhoto · Mar 13, 2017

Is it possible to develop TMY400 and make it look like FP4?

How would one go about doing this? Would you try to match the gradient?

Reason I'm asking is I started shooting a project on FP4 and LOVE the silvery quality of the prints, BUT I really need a bit more depth of field and I'd like to match the look with TMY400.

I'm using divided D23, so the thought occurred to me that I could run some controlled BTZS tests with FP4, develop the film with my standard time, calculate the average gradient, then test TMY400 and see what matches. It also occurred to me that this might be completely wrong.

Anyone?

Ricardo Miranda · Mar 14, 2017

ParkerSmithPhoto said:
Reason I'm asking is I started shooting a project on FP4 and LOVE the silvery quality of the prints, BUT I really need a bit more depth of field and I'd like to match the look with TMY400.

Use FP4 and a tripod.
No need to say Thank You!

ParkerSmithPhoto · Mar 14, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
Use FP4 and a tripod.
No need to say Thank You!

Yeah, that isn't going to work. I'm using on camera flash.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 14, 2017

The only thing you can do is to try to achieve a similar contrast and hope for the best. I've thought in the past, using both films side by side, that they are confusingly similar. Color reproduction might be slightly different, which is probably where the largest difference lies.
I'd shoot a short roll of each and develop it in pieces until you have the normal developing time for both, since that will make a difference (as I'm sure you are aware).

mdarnton · Mar 14, 2017

As my father-in-law used to say, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Just because you may be able to match a couple of the easier-to-measure numbers does not mean two items are identical. I think you may be able to match the overall tonal range, but never the tonal gradation. That's why people use slower films or larger formats.

Ian Grant · Mar 14, 2017

If you're shooting MF I'd suggest Delta 400, but I used to use Tmax 400, no problem matching print tonality if you do some testing for optimum EI and dev times, there's a lot you can do at the printing stage.

My current exhibition set has images made on Delta 100 & 400 as well as HP5 and you'd be pushed to see a difference with final prints.

Ian

Harry Stevens · Mar 14, 2017

Just my humble opinion but I would try a roll of Kentmere 400 I find that as a silvery quality to it..........FP4 and Kentmere 400 are my personal favourites for 2017......You may hate it though.

jim appleyard · Mar 14, 2017

Maybe...you could shoot FP-4 and dev in Diafine? Your EI might only be 250, tho'. Diafine gives a push, but the film doesn't look pushed. Works well for TX, but have never tried it w/FP-4.

Or, a 2nd flash tied in with a radio slave?

JPJackson · Mar 14, 2017

If you are set up to run the tests, do it and generate the charts so you can match the gradients.

Ian Grant · Mar 14, 2017

michael_r said:
Develop to the same contrast and that's about it.

I suggest not worrying too much about a film's "look". Most of them look substantially the same within relatively normal exposure ranges and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in a blind test.

I agree, if exactly the same shot is made of the same thing at the same time with different films you will see differences. But images made on different films at different times will be as you say "substantially the same".

On a slight variation someone wanted to get a unique old look using a Dagor, when asked to choose from a series of exhibition prints which was made using the Dagor she choose the only shot using differential focus with a Yashinon (TLR - Tessar), and the other lenses were modern Plasmats, 1950's tesssar, the Dagor etc..

Ian

jeffreyg · Mar 14, 2017

If you are not using the flash at full power you could stick with the HP4 and increase the power setting.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

flavio81 · Mar 14, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
Use FP4 and a tripod.
No need to say Thank You!

ParkerSmithPhoto said:
Yeah, that isn't going to work. I'm using on camera flash.

Use a higher-powered flash.
This advice was worth USD 50, you can send payment to my PayPal account.
If this isn't worth, for an extra USD 20 i can give you an alternative to using a higher-powered flash.

ParkerSmithPhoto said:
Reason I'm asking is I started shooting a project on FP4 and LOVE the silvery quality of the prints, BUT I really need a bit more depth of field and I'd like to match the look with TMY400.

You can try pushing FP4. It is not too well known, but FP4 is easily pushable up to 1000 or perhaps even more.

The other choice is to use HP5 since it's possible that the spectral response is similar to FP4 (haven't compared). But i feel HP5 is lower contrast so be sure to develop HP5 to a higher contrast so you match the FP4 image.

Jim Noel · Mar 14, 2017

The simple answer is a big fat NO!
You can manipulate the exposure/development in an effort to attain the same characteristic curve. The chances of being successful are somewhere around zero.

Ricardo Miranda · Mar 14, 2017

jeffreyg said:
If you are not using the flash at full power you could stick with the HP4 and increase the power setting.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

There's just a flaw there: HP4 has been out of production for 30+ years.
I know, the devil is in the details, isn't it?

Ricardo Miranda · Mar 14, 2017

flavio81 said:
Use a higher-powered flash.
This advice was worth USD 50, you can send payment to my PayPal account.
If this isn't worth, for an extra USD 20 i can give you an alternative to using a higher-powered flash.

You can try pushing FP4. It is not too well known, but FP4 is easily pushable up to 1000 or perhaps even more.

The other choice is to use HP5 since it's possible that the spectral response is similar to FP4 (haven't compared). But i feel HP5 is lower contrast so be sure to develop HP5 to a higher contrast so you match the FP4 image.

And you can send me GBP 50 for quoting me.

flavio81 · Mar 14, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
And you can send me GBP 50 for quoting me.

Ricardo Miranda said:
There's just a flaw there: HP4 has been out of production for 30+ years.

Correct.
I pay you GBP 50 if you tell me which film is on production and succeeded HP4.

Ricardo Miranda · Mar 14, 2017

HP4 was succeeded in 1976 by HP5 until 1989 HP5 Plus was introduced.
You can see here: http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Chronology.html

No need to pay: I'd rather you spend the money on fresh film.

jeffreyg · Mar 15, 2017

A typo error I was thinking HP5 (iso 400 and Tmax 400), wrote HP4 when it would be FP4Plus. My suggestion about flash power stands although I have no idea what equipment he is using.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

flavio81 · Mar 15, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
HP4 was succeeded in 1976 by HP5 until 1989 HP5 Plus was introduced.
You can see here: http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Chronology.html

No need to pay: I'd rather you spend the money on fresh film.

Ian Grant · Mar 15, 2017

Jim Noel said:
The simple answer is a big fat NO!
You can manipulate the exposure/development in an effort to attain the same characteristic curve. The chances of being successful are somewhere around zero.

It's the final prints that matter and it is possible to mix films and even developers as well and still obtain a coherence in the overall look of a body of work.

As long as you've good control of EI and dev times to get the sort of negative you prefer you have a lot of flexibility at the printing (or scanning) stage.

Ian

RauschenOderKorn · Mar 16, 2017

This is the second thread in a short time about making negs from a faster film look like negs of a slower film:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

----------------

I bet it is NOT possible to deduct the brand/type of film used from a well done print.

If you do not like the prints you are getting from a certain film type, most probably your overall process with that film type has some potential for improvement. Might be the exposure of the negative, might the development of the film or some possible improvement during printing.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 19, 2017

ParkerSmithPhoto said:
Is it possible to develop TMY400 and make it look like FP4?

How would one go about doing this? Would you try to match the gradient?

Reason I'm asking is I started shooting a project on FP4 and LOVE the silvery quality of the prints, BUT I really need a bit more depth of field and I'd like to match the look with TMY400.

I'm using divided D23, so the thought occurred to me that I could run some controlled BTZS tests with FP4, develop the film with my standard time, calculate the average gradient, then test TMY400 and see what matches. It also occurred to me that this might be completely wrong.

Anyone?

If you like the look of FP4 and who doesn't? buy FP4! You can push it a bit.

Matching film looks

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