Massive Film Curl!!

brian steinberger · Feb 28, 2015

So I just finished my new darkroom in my new house and got a chance to try out my new film drying cabinet that I purchased. As you will see in a previous thread of mine I had a buckling problem as my film dried in the cabinet, only 120 Kodak Tri-x. It tried the cabinet with no heat or fan, with heat only, and with heat and fan. So today I tried to simply hang a roll of 120 tri-x to dry out in the open of the darkroom, thinking I wasn't getting enough airflow in the drying cabinet. WOW! What I got was something I have never experienced in my first darkroom. A massive curl away from the emulsion side. I took a few photos and posted below. Now I've done of bit of research and found this is likely due to low humidity? I put a weather station in my darkroom and have 35% humidity right now. I'm thinking of getting a humidifier, but what percentage humidity should I try to keep the darkroom for film drying? In the summer I run a de-humidifier in the basement (where my darkroom is) and it usually stays around 70%.

Suggestions?

P.S. Before anyone asks, yes this film is completely dry. It dried very quickly, in about 45 minutes.

NDKodak · Feb 28, 2015

Do they flatten out when you cut them to put into negative sleeves?

brian steinberger · Feb 28, 2015

NDKodak said:
Do they flatten out when you cut them to put into negative sleeves?

I have not done so yet. But will certainly be doing so soon!

DWThomas · Feb 28, 2015

For the two cents it's worth, I usually hang my film to dry in a large open space in the house, and I have found some films, 400TX among them, to be much more curly than others. Fortunately they do flatten out after storage in some negative file pages.

brian steinberger · Feb 28, 2015

I know what you guys mean by the film curling as it dries. I've seen this before, and even though this film is dry its not even like anything I've ever seen film do. I guess my old darkroom (my parents basement) was just more humid all the time.

randyB · Feb 28, 2015

One possible answer as to why you have that much curl: Using a clothes pin to hang film will work in most cases but sometimes the very small contact area of the pin will allow the 120 film to curl a bit towards the emulison. I have found that using a stainless steel film clip which is wider where it grips the film helps to minimize the curl. I have even used a big binder clip on 120 film. Humidity also plays a big part in film curl as well as the brand/type of film. I just processed my last roll of Efke R25 and when it dried it curled up like a drinking straw. I've attached (I think) a photo of the type of SS clip that I use.

peter k. · Feb 28, 2015

Agree with Randy8, I live in northern Az, where it is dry, and my 120 film is clipped at the top almost the full width, with another clip at the bottom giving it weight. With Trix, at the beginning it curls, but as it fully dries, comes correct.

summicron1 · Feb 28, 2015

curling away from the emulsion means the backing dried before the emulsion did -- so let it hang longer.

35 percent is not all that dry. I hang my film in the open here in Utah where the ambient humidity is closer to 10 percent most days - we live in a desert out here -- and I see it curl away from the emulsion all the time, but when the emulsion dries out it curls back a normal way.

what you hang it off of -- clothes pins, film clips, whatever -- is irrelevant.

Patrick Robert James · Feb 28, 2015

Brian, part of your problem may stem from hanging the film with only one clip on each end (assuming you do so by the picture). Some curl is normal, but when I hang 120 by one clip on each end instead of two I get a lot more curl.

Xmas · Feb 28, 2015

If you dry quickly by heat or low humidity or squegee it will curl more than other wise try foma adox or rolli.

heespharm · Feb 28, 2015

I always finger squeegee lightly and hang by one clip up top and two wooden clothes hanging pins horizontally at the bottom

Just did some trix... Had huge curling like you but I left it for another hour and the curls came out

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brian steinberger · Feb 28, 2015

Ok so I just went back downstairs and looked at the film again, and APUGuser19 was right, the film wasn't completely dry. BUT it's still buckling! I've attached a picture. It's a lengthwise curl. I guess this is all confusing to me simply because I've never dealt with this before. I also texted my parents to see what the humidity was in their basement right now and they said 57%. That's a pretty big difference from my 35%. So that could be why I've never had to deal with this. Also, I think maybe the film buckle could be from the clips as you guys said. But again, I've never had this problem in the hundreds and hundreds of 120 rolls I've developed. But it does appear as if the film is being "stretched" in the center along it's length and leaving the edges to "waver." So I'm thinking of trying a humidifier and wide clips. Anyone know which clips are the width of 120 film?

heespharm · Feb 28, 2015

How cold is it... May need to dry more... My hanging area is 72 degrees no curls

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brian steinberger · Feb 28, 2015

heespharm said:
How cold is it... May need to dry more... My hanging area is 72 degrees no curls

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well it is quite cold there now, but I have a heater that I get going before to get it up to 68 degrees. Then I turn of the heater and it slowly cools down as the film dries. Coolest it is now with no heat is 55 degrees. But that is the same temperature as my old darkroom was in the winter and I never had problems.

brian steinberger · Feb 28, 2015

APUGuser19 said:
Let it dry some more. I'll straighten out--usually.

No the buckle is just like the last few rolls of Tri-x I've done the past week. After 3 days of hanging buckle was same.

heespharm · Feb 28, 2015

Agreed... Develop some more rolls... If it's a recurring problem then I'd be concerned

brian steinberger · Feb 28, 2015

Interesting. So you guys are saying it could be a faulty batch of film?

Sirius Glass · Mar 1, 2015

randyB said:
One possible answer as to why you have that much curl: Using a clothes pin to hang film will work in most cases but sometimes the very small contact area of the pin will allow the 120 film to curl a bit towards the emulison. I have found that using a stainless steel film clip which is wider where it grips the film helps to minimize the curl. I have even used a big binder clip on 120 film. Humidity also plays a big part in film curl as well as the brand/type of film. I just processed my last roll of Efke R25 and when it dried it curled up like a drinking straw. I've attached (I think) a photo of the type of SS clip that I use.

I use something like this or two clothespins. Give it longer to dry out.

gone · Mar 1, 2015

There's nothing wrong. As others have correctly pointed out, your clips are not helping things. Get something that goes the full width of the film. And, let it dry for a few HOURS, then sleeve it in the print files. It will be fine in a while. It's all perfectly normal w/ those ^%!!* clips you're using, along w/ not waiting for the film to settle down. Patience is your friend.

heespharm · Mar 1, 2015

momus said:
There's nothing wrong. As others have correctly pointed out, your clips are not helping things. Get something that goes the full width of the film. And, let it dry for a few HOURS, then sleeve it in the print files. It will be fine in a while. It's all perfectly normal w/ those ^%!!* clips you're using, along w/ not waiting for the film to settle down. Patience is your friend.

Potato chip clips work really well... Sold at any cvs nearby

Xmas · Mar 1, 2015

I use clothing pins/pegs.

But drying time is 12 hours shorter time like putting film in hair curlers curl...

zehner21 · Mar 1, 2015

There are two chemical solutions for this situation:

-1- Aluminium Sulfate 30g/l before the final wash OR -2- Disodium EDTA 2-3g/l before the final wash.

-1- will lower the sharpness while -2- will make the gelatine shiny.

brian steinberger · Mar 1, 2015

Thanks everyone for all the help and suggestions! I'm going to get new clips and also add some humidity to my darkroom.

Neal · Mar 1, 2015

Dear Brian,

In addition to humidity, you need wider clips. For 120 I use clips that have a gripping surface about 1-3/4" wide.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

brian steinberger · Mar 1, 2015

Neal said:
Dear Brian,

In addition to humidity, you need wider clips. For 120 I use clips that have a gripping surface about 1-3/4" wide.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

Thanks Neal, I plan to get some. Any in particular you recommend?

Massive Film Curl!!

brian steinberger

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