Marks on Negatives...

dbla · Mar 26, 2022

Hey all,

This was from a roll of HP5 that I processed in HC110 in a Jobo Tank w/inversions... I noticed this on the edges of 'some' negatives but not all. I have two rolls on one reel and the second roll does not have these marks.

I don't use photoflo on these reels... I have mixed it in this tank, but rinsed it afterwards... Could it be from loading the film??

Pieter12 · Mar 26, 2022

Surge marks from too vigorous agitation?

dbla · Mar 26, 2022

Pieter12 said:
Surge marks from too vigorous agitation?

I thought about that. I wouldn’t think my agitation was too vigorous.

albada · Mar 26, 2022

I would have guessed that the developer did not quite cover the film, leaving an underdeveloped edge. But the fact that one roll on the reel was fine might discredit that theory. You might pour water into the tank to verify that your quantity covers the reel.

dbla · Mar 26, 2022

albada said:
I would have guessed that the developer did not quite cover the film, leaving an underdeveloped edge. But the fact that one roll on the reel was fine might discredit that theory. You might pour water into the tank to verify that your quantity covers the reel.

yeah I might try that. I’ve run quite a bit of film through this tank at this point. Haven’t changed anything.

MattKing · Mar 26, 2022

Those look like the result of air bubbles clinging to the reel - usually they would be on the top edge of the top reel.
Usually they can be dealt with by giving the tank a good rap against a padded surface at the beginning of development.
Sometimes they arise because of a bit of photo-flo or similar residue clinging to the reel.
Sometimes a short pre-rinse can help you with them.
And sometimes their appearance is erratic and inexplicable.

dbla · Mar 26, 2022

MattKing said:
Those look like the result of air bubbles clinging to the reel - usually they would be on the top edge of the top reel.
Usually they can be dealt with by giving the tank a good rap against a padded surface at the beginning of development.
Sometimes they arise because of a bit of photo-flo or similar residue clinging to the reel.
Sometimes a short pre-rinse can help you with them.
And sometimes their appearance is erratic and inexplicable.

Hmm very odd. Just have to wait till I can try again I suppose.

Pieter12 · Mar 26, 2022

I would get these same marks very often on my negatives until I changed to a rotary processor (AuRA https://aurafd.mypinnaclecart.com//) for the tanks instead of inversion. Now I get very even grays, no marks on the edges.

Sirius Glass · Mar 26, 2022

You definitely need to fill the tank more, but still leave room at the top for some air.

dbla · Mar 26, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
You definitely need to fill the tank more, but still leave room at the top for some air.

It’s full. Same volume I’ve been using for a few years. Tank requires 480ml I never use less than 500.

Pieter12 · Mar 26, 2022

dbla said:
It’s full. Same volume I’ve been using for a few years. Tank requires 480ml I never use less than 500.

Same here.

Sirius Glass · Mar 26, 2022

Then follow what @MattKing said about air bells. I give the tank a quick rap on a thick piece of hard rubber when I first pour each chemical into the tank.

dbla · Mar 26, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Then follow what @MattKing said about air bells. I give the tank a quick rap on a thick piece of hard rubber when I first pour each chemical into the tank.

I guess, since I'm somewhat new to this particular forum I should explain... I've been processing black and white by hand for almost twenty years. Some of the time was with a rotary processor when space allowed, but now it's manual inversions. I haven't really had any issues but I am seeing these little 'bubbles' showing on the edges of negative lately. I rap my tank after ever series of inversions, always have, always will ;-)

Just trying to see if I can get to the bottom of what's going on this time, I'm starting to suspect my reels, the edges of this particular roll were a bit buggered up... I've never had an issue with Jobo reels in the past, but I might give my Patterson reels a try for a bit.

MattKing · Mar 26, 2022

Try scrubbing the reels with a toothbrush, in case the issue is related to residue.
I've suspect that this problem can be related to the water we are using - if the tendency to create foam varies with conditions.

dbla · Mar 26, 2022

MattKing said:
Try scrubbing the reels with a toothbrush, in case the issue is related to residue.
I've suspect that this problem can be related to the water we are using - if the tendency to create foam varies with conditions.

Yeah I need to try this, I don't put the wheels in photoflo but I do just rinse them after use so they could probably use a cleaning.

AgX · Mar 26, 2022

MattKing said:
Those look like the result of air bubbles clinging to the reel - usually they would be on the top edge of the top reel.

The effct of air bubbles looks differently.

Maybe contamination of the that side reel flange.

koraks · Mar 27, 2022

dbla said:
It’s full.

Don't think so. The effect shown here is really what you get with slight underfilling combined with some foaming and intermittent agitation.

bernard_L · Mar 27, 2022

Same symptoms here. I use the prescribed 500ml for 1 reel in a Paterson tank. I know, from pouring the distilled water + Photoflo at the end, that such a volume covers the reels, and the film below. I knock the tank several times after pouring the dev. I use D-76 1+1.
And... this appeared recently, after decades of developing without problems with same equipment. Possibly a change in the tap water distribution (I use tap water except for the last photoflo rinse). Might have changed surface tension, therefore propensity for clinging bubbles.
Anecdotal observations: (1) these marks seem more prevalent on the part of the film that is on the outside of the reel (last loaded); (2) last time, following advice seen on photrio, I used an extra 10% (550cc), and I had no marks.

Huub · Mar 27, 2022

I had these kind of marks as well for quite a while. Not always on all films, but quite regularly and always very annoying. The problem solved when i switched form using 500 ml of 1+1 XTOL to 600 ml of replenished XTOL. The first thing i would try in your case is using 600 ml in stead of 500 ml of developer and see what happens.

pentaxuser · Mar 27, 2022

Huub said:
I had these kind of marks as well for quite a while. Not always on all films, but quite regularly and always very annoying. The problem solved when i switched form using 500 ml of 1+1 XTOL to 600 ml of replenished XTOL. The first thing i would try in your case is using 600 ml in stead of 500 ml of developer and see what happens.

What is the correct capacity of your tank? Is it 500ml as you previously used or 600 as you now use and what do you believe to be the relevance of replenished Xtol as opposed to your previous regime of Xtol 1+1?

Is your tank the same as the OP's? If the OP's is the Jobo 1520 then its capacity is 485ml but 500ml would be fine. However 600ml would be over filling it

pentaxuser

Huub · Mar 28, 2022

I am using the Paterson tanks that take 2 35mm reels and need 600 ml to fill and not the Jobo tank the original poster is using.

I am not sure what caused to effects to go away, as i changed two variables at the same time, but was of course very happy the problem is solved now. My guess is that 500 ml is not enough developer, even when it just covers the reels. Turbulance and foam might effect the upper side of the negatives, but their might be another cause, related to the change of the type of developer of course.

David Lingham · Mar 28, 2022

A similar thing happen processing a 120 roll of Delta 100 in ID11 1+1 using a two reel Paterson tank. I forgot to fit the white plastic grommet over the spindle to keep the spiral in place, and when I inverted to agitate the spiral would slide up the spindle and move slightly out of both the developer and the fix. This movement also caused the developer to foam as well. I was using 500mls of liquid, which is the recommended amount for a 120 film in a two reel tank, as a result I now use a bit more developer and fix completely filling the tank, also making sure I remember to fit that grommet.

pentaxuser · Mar 28, 2022

Huub said:
I am using the Paterson tanks that take 2 35mm reels and need 600 ml to fill and not the Jobo tank the original poster is using.

I am not sure what caused to effects to go away, as i changed two variables at the same time, but was of course very happy the problem is solved now. My guess is that 500 ml is not enough developer, even when it just covers the reels. Turbulance and foam might effect the upper side of the negatives, but their might be another cause, related to the change of the type of developer of course.

Thanks. My point is that the OP is using the Jobo tank. It's capacity is 485ml. I have the same tank and can assure you that it is not the same as the Paterson tank and does not take 600ml. It will take 500ml which is what the OP says he uses and as he says he does fill the tank we should turn our attention to other factors that may cause his problem

pentaxuser .

Don_ih · Mar 28, 2022

If the reels are completely covered and agitation doesn't involve actually shaking the developer in the tank, the most likely culprit is fixer residue on the developing reel. However, you'd think that would impact both edges, since if it's on one side of the reel, it's probably on the other. Cleaning the reels is a good step toward eliminating one source. Also, if the reels were in photoflo and not rinsed after, residual photoflo could cause bubbled to form more easily at the top of the developer - some which may cling to the top side of the reel.

warden · Mar 28, 2022

dbla said:
Hey all,

This was from a roll of HP5 that I processed in HC110 in a Jobo Tank w/inversions... I noticed this on the edges of 'some' negatives but not all. I have two rolls on one reel and the second roll does not have these marks.

I don't use photoflo on these reels... I have mixed it in this tank, but rinsed it afterwards... Could it be from loading the film??

I've seen this on my medium format negatives a few times too but not as severe as yours show, and the effect is intermittent. It seems unlikely that dirty reels would be the cause for me or I think I would be seeing the problem with every roll. I'll try increasing to 550ml instead of 500ml in my Patterson and see if that does the trick.

Marks on Negatives...

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Pieter12

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bernard_L

Huub

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