Mamiya TLR 80mm f/3.7 repair question

janew · Apr 6, 2021

DIY idiot here. The lens on my Mamiya C220 was in pretty good shape -- the glass is perfect -- but the slow speeds were getting unreliable. It's the 80mm f/3.7 with a Copal shutter.

So I decided to take it apart. And I lost a part. Sigh.

Does anyone know where you can get random parts for these shutters? Or of someone who rebuilds them?

Seems a shame to throw away a good lens just 'cause a tiny spring went astray.

TIA

[edit] added the photo, taken pre-catastrophe

bernard_L · Apr 6, 2021

Springs can be made DIY. Which spring? Please show a picture; not of the spring obviously, but its location.

Nicholas Lindan · Apr 6, 2021

I keep a strip of Neodymium magnets in a plastic bag that I sweep over the floor in an attempt to find the lost part. Sometimes it works - found a ball bearing in the grass once - and sometimes it doesn't. Funny how much magnetic dust there seems to be in the carpet...

General purpose springs can be purchased: https://www.mcmaster.com/springs https://www.thespringstore.com/stock-small-extension-springs-for-sale.html and many more. Google is your friend...

Most springs aren't very critical, the shutter equivalent of a screen door spring, and you can often substitute something close and everything still works fine. There are lots of shutters out there working away with bits of cut-to-fit spring from a ball point pen.

If the spring you lost is one of those really stiff oddly shaped ones so favored by the likes of Compur then you may be scrawed (that's a fish served in Boston or the subjunctive plu-perfect past tense of being screwed). If you can't find a replacement spring then you might find a used jammed-up shutter as a spring donor.

Dan Daniel · Apr 6, 2021

What is the actual shutter? And which spring? Most shutters have more than one spring. And many shutters were used on a variety of lenses so you can find organ donor bodies elsewhere.

You might contact Flutot's and see if they can help. https://flutotscamerarepair.com/AboutUs.htm

You can get music wire and make your own in many cases.

bernard_L · Apr 6, 2021

Sure you can re-purpose springs from common objects, but that takes a bit of luck. There are a number of parameters; each with more or less margin of tolerance: length at rest, stiffness, available space... And some are not found in the wild, like some hairpin springs, e.g. the one that allows the main ring to go past the shutter blade actuator when cocking, and to catch it when moving in the other direction, when shutter is tripped. To replace such a spring, I once had to source (at great shipping expense) some 0.1mm (4mil) piano wire.

Tel · Apr 6, 2021

Please post a picture of the shutter's insides and don't throw the lens away! I have some parts for Mamiya TLR shutters, but the donors I used were all Seikoshas. Still, it's worth thinking about. And like Bernard L, I have acquired some spools of piano wire which I'd be happy to share.

MattKing · Apr 6, 2021

That particular lens and shutter combination is a rather strange and rare one - the "budget" option that not many bought.
I'm guessing that you would be more likely to find a replacement 80mm f/2.8 lens pair.

Grim Tuesday · Apr 6, 2021

MattKing said:
That particular lens and shutter combination is a rather strange and rare one - the "budget" option that not many bought.
I'm guessing that you would be more likely to find a replacement 80mm f/2.8 lens pair.

Yeah it's a rare lens. I believe it's also the only Mamiya TLR lens to use a copal shutter rather than a Seiko one. OP should look for parts for a Copal #0 (I think?) shutter to replace her spring.

Nicholas Lindan · Apr 6, 2021

Piano wire is (or was?) available at hobby shops - the ones that sold balsa wood and such for making models along with model railroads and planes. And, I imagine, there is always the piano tuner/piano repair shop.

You can buy or fabricate a spring making jig - google for "spring making" for a selection of articles and YouTube videos.

janew · Apr 6, 2021

MattKing said:
That particular lens and shutter combination is a rather strange and rare one - the "budget" option that not many bought.

I just bought the camera, from one of the Japanese dealers on eBay. Who said in the item description that the shutter was sticky. (Which was reflected in the price.)
I've read that these lenses are rare, but there's a flood of them on eBay. Maybe these dealers are haunting estate sales or something?
The rarity definitely complicated my problem. There's a bunch of Youtube videos on removing the slow-speed escapement from the Seikosha shutters. I ahem foolishly thought this would be similar.

janew · Apr 6, 2021

bernard_L said:
...Which spring? Please show a picture; not of the spring obviously, but its location.

I took a picture as I was disassembling it. I've attached it to my original post.
And thank you!

janew · Apr 6, 2021

Nicholas Lindan said:
I keep a strip of Neodymium magnets in a plastic bag that I sweep over the floor in an attempt to find the lost part. Sometimes it works - found a ball bearing in the grass once - and sometimes it doesn't. Funny how much magnetic dust there seems to be in the carpet...

LOL. I've spent the last few hours on my hands and knees, definitely. The magnet's a great idea, but it's going to be a few days till I can get into town to get one.
Thanks for the rest of the counsel, too! I'll check out your sources. And the piano wire advice I'm getting sounds pretty good! The spring's pretty simple. (And don't know why I neglected to post the photo last night but it's up there now.)

Dan Daniel said:
What is the actual shutter? And which spring? Most shutters have more than one spring. And many shutters were used on a variety of lenses so you can find organ donor bodies elsewhere.

You might contact Flutot's and see if they can help. https://flutotscamerarepair.com/AboutUs.htm

You can get music wire and make your own in many cases.

Just posted the picture I took while disassembling it...
And I don't know the shutter model precisely. Unfortunately, that information seems a little scarce. I was looking at info for the common Copal #0 shutters etc. but they're way different...
Thanks for the recommendation re Flutot's. I'll contact them. [edit] But their website says they're only taking LF shutters currently

janew · Apr 6, 2021

Tel said:
Please post a picture of the shutter's insides and don't throw the lens away! I have some parts for Mamiya TLR shutters, but the donors I used were all Seikoshas. Still, it's worth thinking about. And like Bernard L, I have acquired some spools of piano wire which I'd be happy to share.

Gosh thank you! I will ask at the music store here, but I live in a very remote small town. I'll check into it. But I might take you up on the offer of mailing me a little bit of the piano wire.

janew · Apr 6, 2021

Nicholas Lindan said:
Piano wire is (or was?) available at hobby shops - the ones that sold balsa wood and such for making models along with model railroads and planes. And, I imagine, there is always the piano tuner/piano repair shop.

You can buy or fabricate a spring making jig - google for "spring making" for a selection of articles and YouTube videos.

Thank you! It's sounding like piano wire is the way to go.

bernard_L · Apr 6, 2021

So now, with the picture, I'd say (a) looks like 0.1mm or 0.2mm diameter wire. Not something you'll find in a guitar shop; (b) looks fairly easy to duplicate, maybe a small drill bit for the main curve, and tweezers for the hairpin loop.
Like Tel, I'd be happy to share some small-diameter piano wire; he resides on the same continent as you (EU here); Just say.

Mamiya_Repair · Apr 6, 2021

The Copal shutter used in the Mamiya 80mm f/3.7 lens was a Copal AB323 which would be a "00" size shutter. The part you are asking about is the sync contact spring made from a copper alloy for maximum conductivity. It is used in that shutter only, the "0" and "1" sizes have a different sync spring. If you DM me I can help as I have most all parts for Mamiya shutters.

Tel · Apr 6, 2021

I had a rummage through my spring parts bin and both spools I found appear to be .009" steel. Looks like Bill (Mamiya_Repair) has the right stuff to fix it.

janew · Apr 6, 2021

Mamiya_Repair said:
The Copal shutter used in the Mamiya 80mm f/3.7 lens was a Copal AB323 which would be a "00" size shutter. The part you are asking about is the sync contact spring made from a copper alloy for maximum conductivity. It is used in that shutter only, the "0" and "1" sizes have a different sync spring. If you DM me I can help as I have most all parts for Mamiya shutters.

Thank you!!

MattKing · Apr 6, 2021

Mamiya_Repair said:
The Copal shutter used in the Mamiya 80mm f/3.7 lens was a Copal AB323 which would be a "00" size shutter. The part you are asking about is the sync contact spring made from a copper alloy for maximum conductivity. It is used in that shutter only, the "0" and "1" sizes have a different sync spring. If you DM me I can help as I have most all parts for Mamiya shutters.

janew doesn't have a sufficient number of posts to be able to initiate a DM/"Conversation", but if you initiate one, they can participate.

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