Mamiya RZ IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL camera

cao · Aug 29, 2007

k_jupiter said:
There have been no words of admonishment that Daniel didn't deserve.

tim in san jose

But who is chaste enough to decide desert? Most of the respondents attacked as a pack or clique. That was uncalled for. I find it interesting that none of the dumpers was female. Something to ponder.

Something else to ponder: do you genuinely think this group boorishness did Dan any good?

I guess for me, the general social phenomenon is far more distressing than Dan's original outburst, and hence my disgust.

bdial · Aug 29, 2007

Many people here are passionate about photography, and about the tools used to produce it. And no one likes it when their passions are challenged.

I'm not offering this as an excuse, just an explanation.

There is also no one here who has used a camera equipped with a darkslide that has not made the same mistake in one form or another, and several of the posters have admitted as much.

Many here consider it unseemly for a pro especially, to blame a mistake on an easily controlled external factor. Many people here work in circumstances where no mistake is permitted, and they are expected to own up to the mistakes they make. For those in such a position, it's difficult to be tolerant of those unwilling to make that same commitment.

Not every camera is perfectly suited to every user, if that were the case there would only be one on the market, and that's what everyone would use. Daniel has concluded that his RZ is not suited to him. There's nothing wrong in that, but to make a grand pronouncement that it's unsuitable as a tool for a pro to use challenges the passions and/or experience of a great number of the forum participants. That some react out of that passion just means we're human, as well as photographers.

Drew B. · Aug 29, 2007

cao said:
I am going to ask the moderators to politely close this thread since I think nothing is to be gained by heaping more indignity on the OP.

Naw..keep it going. Soon it will turn into something completely different and that will be fun also!

bjorke · Aug 29, 2007

Daniel-OB said:
I just cannot accept it to think about camera when shooting.

Ah, this must be the new joke thread??

cao · Aug 29, 2007

bdial said:
That some react out of that passion just means we're human, as well as photographers.

Therein lies the issue. Perhaps Dan should have not made the initial post, but I think many respondents should have given time for their passions to temper before replying.

bdial said:
Daniel has concluded that his RZ is not suited to him.

This I find sad. I would rather hope he might try to persist a bit. Writing it off seems a bit premature to me.

THardy · Aug 29, 2007

I have problems with any equipment if I'm not familiar with it. You have to use these cameras more than just every once in a while.

Daniel-OB · Aug 29, 2007

John Ars
And yes I work since over 15 years with my Bronica no fails but I still have always a spare camera with me, this belongs also to a professional, in my opinion.
I already said in previus posts:
- Yes, I am the one that screwed
- Camera was checked prior to slip into the bag, all OK.
- Spare camera was with me.
- Camera was shootung with no sign anything is wrong.
- Two shuts was missed, other (thank you God) OK
- When I saw the slide in the back it was ALREADY (next second) to later to repeat the shut.
So what was a point in the spare camera that moment. Just take the slide out and all is fine with the camera.

My point is that the Mamiya should not shoot (by the camera design) with the slide in but it did with no sign the slide is in (my mistake, I "beleived" in that camera). Evryone says it is fine, I accepted.

www.Leica-R.com

titrisol · Aug 30, 2007

Agreed it shouldn't fire, it is designed not to

But for some reason hardware fails sometimes... and in the most inconvenient times.

As I said before, is your back (the one that gave you truble) an old model????
If it is, then get a new one and this shouldn;t happen again

Daniel-OB said:
My point is that the Mamiya should not shoot (by the camera design) with the slide in but it did with no sign the slide is in (my mistake, I "beleived" in that camera). Evryone says it is fine, I accepted.

www.Leica-R.com

ulrikft · Aug 30, 2007

cao said:
But who is chaste enough to decide desert? Most of the respondents attacked as a pack or clique. That was uncalled for. I find it interesting that none of the dumpers was female. Something to ponder.

Something else to ponder: do you genuinely think this group boorishness did Dan any good?

I guess for me, the general social phenomenon is far more distressing than Dan's original outburst, and hence my disgust.

Pack or clique? I don't know any of the other responders... I just geniunely think it is stupid to blame a camera for your own shortcomings. (just as your insinuations about gender are.. stupid.. )

frugal · Aug 30, 2007

Daniel-OB said:
- Camera was checked prior to slip into the bag, all OK.
- Camera was shootung with no sign anything is wrong.

My point is that the Mamiya should not shoot (by the camera design) with the slide in but it did with no sign the slide is in (my mistake, I "beleived" in that camera). Evryone says it is fine, I accepted.

Just curious here (and apologies for cutting up your post a bit), when you say you tested the camera prior to packing, have you ever tested shooting the camera with the dark slide in? I don't know the RZ67 line but it sounds like you have a case of 2 possibilities:

The interlock mechanism for that back/body is not working properly
Some have suggested that it might be a back that doesn't support the interlock feature (I don't know enouch about the line to know the details for this)

I'm just pointing out that you should never rely on a feature like this without confirming that it works. If you did test this and it failed in the field that's certainly a shame, you caught the problem and moved on. But I'd point out that if you didn't test the feature before hand then you didn't fully test the camera, and clearly there was a problem with it that your testing wasn't complete, something to keep in mind for future tests.

jstraw · Aug 30, 2007

cao said:
And I should hope most of us would have enough dignity not to kick another in the teeth even if he was rash. This has been a very embarrassing if perversely enlightening experience for me.

In other words: LAY OFF GUYS! YOUR RUDE ADMONITIONS MAKE APUG LOOK LIKE A BUNCH OF JERKS! I want APUG to look a place that people would be welcome and forgiven human failings. Next time you think to rub salt in the wounds, don't!

I am going to ask the moderators to politely close this thread since I think nothing is to be gained by heaping more indignity on the OP.

Hall monitor.

Daniel-OB · Aug 30, 2007

Frugal
- I did test shuter at most of the speed, test OK
- I did test shooting with slide in, test OK
- my back is NEW (around 20 rolls through), no signs of damage or scratch
- I did test rotating position of the back, test OK
- I did test all three lights in the finder, test OK
- I did test shooter closing on my lens (brans new 50 mm ULD), test OK
- the same back never failed before, spared back too, 220 back sometimes fails simetimes not.
- I do test myself and it is first time I FAILED with the slide

I have dummy film for that tests which I perform from time to time.
What else I can do for that camera not to fail. I never droped it.

I would like to thanks to evryone for your time and all is said I accept as friendly advices I do not see just any post as attack.

Tom Duffy · Aug 30, 2007

You know, it's funny. I've taken some of my best pictures with an RZ II, but the camera never clicked for me. I was at odds with it's whole design and always fighting with it, including light leaks with the 220 backs and uneven spacing of the frames, awkward film advance lever and useless depth of field scales.

The back on my Mamiya weighs a lot, is built like a tank but is prone to unrecoverable disasters. I traded it for a Contax 645 with plastic, flimsy backs and the difference is astounding. No muss, no fuss, they just work.

Some cameras you fight with, some are an intuitive joy to use. Leicas, both rangefinder and SLR are a joy, Canons are not.

The point to my post? Annie Leibowitz is an even better photographer than you thought.

max_ebb · Aug 31, 2007

cao said:
I find it interesting that none of the dumpers was female. Something to ponder.

You know why men can't get mad cow disease?

Because men are pigs.

Zathras · Aug 31, 2007

naturephoto1 said:
Daniel,

Sorry to hear about your problems with your RZ. I have news for you, Pro Quality Cameras including Mamiya, Hasselblad, Rollei, Leica, Nikon, Canon, Sinar, Linhof, Arca Swiss, Toyo... all can and do fail. Even some that are brand new that supposedly passed QC have been know to fail right out of the box. Get the camera/back fixed and move on. Nothing is perfect or infalable including people.

Rich

I had this problem with a brand new Hasselblad back. I bought my Hassy 15 years ago when they were having a promotion where you would get a free A-12 back with the purchase of a new camera or lens. Apparently the promotion was very successful and lots of cameras were sold. Unfortunately, Hasselblad underestimated the demand and had to rush the manufacture of the backs, and QC took a big hit. As a result, many of the backs were defective right out of the box. My extra back had problems with spacing. To their credit, and with no questions asked, Hasselblad repaired it at an authorised repair station and all was well. The dealer I bought the camera from told me that many people were having problems with backs that were D.O.A right out of the box. Like everybody else, even Hasselblad sometimes makes booboos.

Mike Sullivan

benjiboy · Sep 1, 2007

Mad Cow Disease

max_ebb said:
You know why men can't get mad cow disease?

Because men are pigs.

Unfortunately Max, both men and women can get mad cow disease, B.S. E. ( Bovine Spongiform Encephalitis) in it's human form is called C.J.D.(Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease) and ,is a terrible death for which there is no cure.

Andy K · Sep 1, 2007

Daniel-OB said:
Professional camera must be fail free and able to take a shoot at very different weather and temperature conditions, and also to free a photographer from technicalities. It just must take a shoot, period.

Daniel, the Fujifilm Quicksnap Marine meets those criteria.

k_jupiter · Sep 2, 2007

benjiboy said:
Unfortunately Max, both men and women can get mad cow disease, B.S. E. ( Bovine Spongiform Encephalitis) in it's human form is called C.J.D.(Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease) and ,is a terrible death for which there is no cure.

Unfortunately BenjiBoy, some people don't see the joke, no matter in how bad a taste it is and feel compelled to make comment. Who cares? Not one vegetarian was ever infected by MCD. You makes your choices, you takes your chances.

What a stick in the mud. Get off the soap box.

tim in san jose

Pim Warnars · Sep 2, 2007

I don't understand why you shoot RZ anyway while you have rb's aswell. Fully mechanical, ROBUST! and the lenses have a better bokeh. Sell the RZ and you can buy two RB's!

billparrott · Sep 3, 2007

ok... I'm not seeing the part where this is a "camera failure" ... it's a dark slide.. we have to train ourselves to remember them.. sometimes we get too used to "auto everything" that we forget to think... and expect the camera.. a machine... to do our thinking for us... nothing wrong with the Mamiya 6x7 line...

abcpyro · Sep 4, 2007

use mamiya from many years in all the conditions warm, cold, rain, snow, study and not never problem I know professionals whom they use rz and they are content, lens much beautiful and recorded creed is one of the best cameras in commerce

frugal · Sep 4, 2007

Daniel-OB said:
Frugal
- I did test shuter at most of the speed, test OK
- I did test shooting with slide in, test OK
- my back is NEW (around 20 rolls through), no signs of damage or scratch
- I did test rotating position of the back, test OK
- I did test all three lights in the finder, test OK
- I did test shooter closing on my lens (brans new 50 mm ULD), test OK
- the same back never failed before, spared back too, 220 back sometimes fails simetimes not.
- I do test myself and it is first time I FAILED with the slide

I have dummy film for that tests which I perform from time to time.
What else I can do for that camera not to fail. I never droped it.

I would like to thanks to evryone for your time and all is said I accept as friendly advices I do not see just any post as attack.

Okay, sounds like a very thorough testing regime. The reason I mentioned is because some people will say, "well I fully tested the camera before I left and everything was fine," yet when you ask, "well, did you test if the interlock was working to prevent you from shooting with the dark slide in?" they reply, "um, well, no I didn't," which means that they didn't fully test the camera. Expecting a feature you haven't tested to work properly is always a bad idea.

Now in your case it sounds like you've gone further than most would in testing your gear so that's not the case with you. It does sound like something failed in the field. I don't know enough about the RZ series to say what might have caused the failure but I'd definitely get it looked at by a repair facility.

THardy · Sep 4, 2007

I bought an old 120 folder which was refurbished. That particular model has a feature which prevents tripper the shutter unless the film was advanced. The shutter could be cocked though.

So here I am engrossed in using this new camera, and realized that I just made a triple exposure or worse.

I emailed the vendor and he said "well the camera is old, some of those features just may not work now".

Sure that's my mistake, but I now like that camera that much less.

Went to Florence Italy, then Rome on a trip. After 30 minutes of shooting in Rome, I noticed the camera (dSLR) was set to ISO 1600 in bright daylight!

The day before I had been shooting inside the dark churches in Florence, you got it, with the camera set at ISO 1600.

I realized that the camera had nothing to do with the problem, my mistake. I have no malice toward that camera.

Nicole · Sep 13, 2007

A professional is not judged by it's equipment but by it's ability. A professional can work with just about any equipment if needed to. It's nice to have nice professional looking gear, but that's not important.

David R Munson · Sep 13, 2007

I know I'm a little late coming to this topic, but to say that the RZ is not a professional-quality camera is so far off base as to be laughable. I'm sorry that the OP has had this negative experience, but it is not indicative of the camera system as a whole. I've been through a lot of equipment, especially given my age. In the last 12 years, for example, I've been through 5 Nikon F3 bodies and SEVEN Mamiya 645 bodies. 3 and 5 have failed, respectively. All were purchased used and while one or two failures were genuinely defective and were covered by warranty, the rest were just beaten into the ground from hard use. Now, do I think that either the Nikon F3 or the Mamiya 645 aren't professional-level cameras? Hardly! Why not? Because I understand why things fail sometimes and that I happened to be working the odds by buying ugly users because I was a poor student. I bought cheap and used them until they died. The two RB67s that I had for a while were even better and those absolutely refused to even whimper no matter how hard I used them.

My point is this: the occasional equipment failure can be devastating to whatever you happen to be working on at the time, but it does not necessarily indicate the quality of the tool you are using. On a long enough time scale, EVERYTHING will break down, and there are always flukes that show up early once in a while. The RZ67 is one of the best, most reliable, most bulletproof medium format cameras ever made, and it is a tool of the highest professional class. I'd take one over a Hasselblad for reliability any day of the week.

Mamiya RZ IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL camera

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