Mamiya RZ IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL camera

max_ebb · Aug 28, 2007

k_jupiter said:
The mirror should cover your butt on a rb67, but it's not fool proof. Especially if you haven't checked all your cloth seals lately.

tim in san jose

If the light seals leak, it's a problem whether or not you change the lens. The lens lets lots of light in. If it didn't, you couldn't see through the view finder.

k_jupiter · Aug 28, 2007

max_ebb said:
If the light seals leak, it's a problem whether or not you change the lens. The lens lets lots of light in. If it didn't, you couldn't see through the view finder.

You are correct. The point is, you can change lens with the dark slide in your pocket.

tim in san jose

bdial · Aug 28, 2007

You are correct. The point is, you can change lens with the dark slide in your pocket.

That's a feature, if it's in your pocket, you are less likely to lose it.

( Sorry...I work in the software industry)

k_jupiter · Aug 28, 2007

bdial said:
That's a feature, if it's in your pocket, you are less likely to lose it.

( Sorry...I work in the software industry)

Come over to the dark slide.

tim (SW engineer of sorts) in san jose

frugal · Aug 29, 2007

max_ebb said:
I don't see what difference that makes. Why would you need the dark slide in for changing lenses? Pentax 67's don't even have dark slides, but it doesn't keep you from changing lenses with film in the camera.

The RB67 uses leaf shutters (in the lens) so you'd need to put the dark slide in the back to protect the film before changing lenses or else you risk fogging the film.

SuzanneR · Aug 29, 2007

frugal said:
The RB67 uses leaf shutters (in the lens) so you'd need to put the dark slide in the back to protect the film before changing lenses or else you risk fogging the film.

So does the RZ, but shouldn't the mirror keep things light tight when you change the lens? I wouldn't risk it, if I had the darkslide, and haven't because I only have one lens for mine!

But, I suppose without a shutter curtain behind the mirror it could fog film when you change the lens. (Thinking out loud here..)

Also, there' s a convenient place to put the dark slide at the back of the "back". I think you would have less trouble losing the darkslides or leaving them in the car if you get in the habit of using the slot on the back itself.

Steve Smith · Aug 29, 2007

frugal said:
The RB67 uses leaf shutters (in the lens) so you'd need to put the dark slide in the back to protect the film before changing lenses or else you risk fogging the film.

I have never put the darkslide in to change lenses. If you look at the manual you will see that associated with the mirror is a light baffle which moves out of the way with the mirror.

In the manual (for the Pro SD) in the section about changing lenses it says:

'Be sure that the mirror is in the cocked down position in the camera body, shielding the film plane from exposure to light'

It does not mention putting the dark slide in anywhere.

Having taken a few pictures with a dark slide almost fully in place, I now keep my darkslides in the camera bag separate from the film backs unless they are loaded with film.

Steve.

Jim_in_Kyiv · Aug 29, 2007

paul ron said:
Seriously, the RB is the workhorse of the Mamiyas and are built like Russian tanks.

I hope not! The T-72, from what I understand, had an autoloader that was excellent at amputating arms. (Tank forum at Strategypage). I don't mind my photo equipment stretching my arms, but taking them off - no thanks!

titrisol · Aug 29, 2007

Daniel-OB said:
Shawn
Yes I accept slide shuuld be pulled out by me not by camera and I failed.
RZ is made NOT TO FIRE when slide is in, and I paid for that feature. So how you now explain it? Can a pro camera work that way?

Also is your film back a new one or an old one?
If you have time to read the manual there is this warning:

* The Shutter Release Button of the RZ67 will not lock automatically,
nor will the viewfinder red warning lamp illuminate if a Dark Slide remains
in a Pro-S Roll Film Holder. Consequently, be sure to remove the Dark
Slide before beginning a picture-taking session.

If your back is new, the RZ should fire only if you were in the "emergency"/manual mode
without checking if the dark slide is in.

Check (if your schedule allows it) and see if the safety pin has not been depressed and if back is correctly making contact.

Suzanne said:
So does the RZ, but shouldn't the mirror keep things light tight when you change the lens? I wouldn't risk it, if I had the darkslide, and haven't because I only have one lens for mine!

But, I suppose without a shutter curtain behind the mirror it could fog film when you change the lens. (Thinking out loud here..)

The darkslide is used so that you can have a few backs preloaded with film and ready to go during your shooting.
At 9 frames/roll having 3 or 4 of these will allow you to shoot 30 frames.

***NOTE: I have not used an RZ myself, last mamiya I used was an RB eons ago.
I just took 10 minutes to find the above info, thanks to GOOGLE

ulrikft · Aug 29, 2007

Daniel-OB said:
I got RZ Pro II. It is said on many places such a camera is professional tool. Well. Is it? I just do not think so, at least by my own standard what is a professional camera.

Professional camera must be fail free and able to take a shoot at very different weather and temperature conditions, and also to free a photographer from technicalities. It just must take a shoot, period.

Amateur wistling going home no matter camera shut or not, same same. Next time he will repeat if camera failed.

I had an important even to shoot, many people in a group. Distributing people, selecting background, thinking about exposure time for waterfall in background, use 50 mm ULD lens, scanning everybody’s face like a snake through a viewfinder, make everybody in good mood and to smile,... puf.

Reposition the group, click, click. Three important shut done, and one more left. Than suddenly I realized technical problem with a camera. That freaken camera shoot with a slide in. I took a slide out and shut. Recolect quickly part of the group and reshut.

I just cannot accept it to think about camera when shooting. It is not a first time that such a camera fails, and I do not consider the slide is photographers fail. It just blames me and my business. Simple, just not acceptable.

Mamiya RZ Pro II is a amateurish camera, in spite of good lenses.

You blame the camera for you not knowing it? That is an interesting way of trying to write off your own responsibilities?

Roger Hicks · Aug 29, 2007

Everyone screws up sometimes -- and it can be tempting to blame poorly written instructions/non-obvious hang-ups/things you think ought to be different. Sure I've said to my wife "Why couldn't they WARN you about that" or "What a bloody stupid way to do it," but ultimately, if I screw up on a professional shoot (or even an amateur one) it's my fault and I think I'd just look foolish if I went on a public forum and said that a successful and widely used professional-grade camera wasn't professional, but I was. Sorry Daniel.

max_ebb · Aug 29, 2007

frugal said:
The RB67 uses leaf shutters (in the lens) so you'd need to put the dark slide in the back to protect the film before changing lenses or else you risk fogging the film.

MF SLR leaf shutters aren't like LF or range finder leaf shutters, they stay open except for when they're actually being fired (where as LF leaf shutters stay closed unless you manually open them for composing, and range finder leaf shutters are always closed unless they're firing). If the shutter wasn't open, how would you see anything in the view finder?

cao · Aug 29, 2007

As JStraw said, wow! While Dan's response may have been rash, I am very surprised and disappointed by the line of respondents including at least one moderator waiting to take a whiz in his face. How do people think this derision makes us appear to someone who casually wanders by? Here is a definite answer to the question of why I don't subscribe; I do not want to reward this behavior with my hard earned cash. I'd expect this on p'net, but I thought we were a rather better lot. Note well: I own four Mamiyas with which I have gotten good shots and screw-ups, but I've no need to be vindictive. In a situation where one might need to play the educator, one should have the habit of suffering with good grace those one imagines to be fools.

jstraw · Aug 29, 2007

cao said:
As JStraw said, wow! While Dan's response may have been rash, I am very surprised and disappointed by the line of respondents including at least one moderator waiting to take a whiz in his face. How do people think this derision makes us appear to someone who casually wanders by? Here is a definite answer to the question of why I don't subscribe; I do not want to reward this behavior with my hard earned cash. I'd expect this on p'net, but I thought we were a rather better lot. Note well: I own four Mamiyas with which I have gotten good shots and screw-ups, but I've no need to be vindictive. In a situation where one might need to play the educator, one should have the habit of suffering with good grace those one imagines to be fools.

Sorry to disappoint you but my "wow" was a reaction to the obtuseness of the OP. It was the most restraint I could come up with in my attempt not to pile on. As Eric Rose pointed out, a pro camera is anything a pro chooses to use. Hassy? Holga? You betcha.

Professionalism comes from the use of tools, not the tools. Part of professionalism is being prepared for equipment failure, recognizing when it's occurring and then making use of that preparation.

We all screw up. I sympathize with Daniel's situation. I've been through similar. But most of us would have more pride and more sense to come here, blame our tools and expect support and absolution from peers. Coming here to warn us that X, Y or Z camera isn't to be trusted was foolishness.

JohnArs · Aug 29, 2007

Daniel do not blame the camera for your mistake not to drill enough bevor the event so you can handle the camera always even in darkness!
But if you had the Bronica GS 1 it could not happen I just testet mine. It does not make klick with the slide in it, so you would my Bronica call Pro.
And yes I work since over 15 years with my Bronica no fails but I still have always a spare camera with me, this belongs also to a professional, in my opinion.
You have to drill so you can do it always very easy, even in front of 1000 people.
Amen, Armin

panastasia · Aug 29, 2007

SuzanneR said:
So does the RZ, but shouldn't the mirror keep things light tight when you change the lens? I wouldn't risk it, if I had the darkslide, and haven't because I only have one lens for mine!

But, I suppose without a shutter curtain behind the mirror it could fog film when you change the lens. (Thinking out loud here..)

If the shutter is cocked (you can see the image in the finder) the mirror is down, acting as the light baffle when lenses are removed. The lens cannot be removed without cocking the shutter (and resetting the mirror).

The darkslide isn't relevant to lens removal. It's for keeping light from entering through the (darkslide) slot and for changing backs - removed for exposing film only. Sometimes I just leave the darkslide out during a series of shots (beware of direct sunlight shining into the slot, though, it can get in).

Regards, Paul

Travis Nunn · Aug 29, 2007

panastasia said:
If the shitter is cocked (you can see the image in the finder) the mirror is down...

typo?

naturephoto1 · Aug 29, 2007

t_nunn said:
typo?

Travis,

You forgot the smiley face or the wink. Rats, you slipped in the grin as I was typing this I think.

Rich

Travis Nunn · Aug 29, 2007

naturephoto1 said:
Travis,

You forgot the smiley face or the wink. Rats, you slipped in the grin as I was typing this I think.

Rich

panastasia · Aug 29, 2007

t_nunn said:
typo?

Thanks for editing - correction made.

Roger Hicks · Aug 29, 2007

panastasia said:
Thanks for editing - correction made.

Aw, shut...

frugal · Aug 29, 2007

max_ebb said:
MF SLR leaf shutters aren't like LF or range finder leaf shutters, they stay open except for when they're actually being fired (where as LF leaf shutters stay closed unless you manually open them for composing, and range finder leaf shutters are always closed unless they're firing). If the shutter wasn't open, how would you see anything in the view finder?

Ah true, I've used LF and never used an MF with leaf shutters. I was merely mentioning it for the question of why it's not an issue with the Pentax 67, which has a focal plane shutter.

jeroldharter · Aug 29, 2007

I have tried Yashica, Contax, Canon, Pentax 67, Toyo, Canham. I would say that each could be a professional camera despite their limitations.

One of the exasperating but interesting things about choosing equipment is trying to find the right match between the camera's feature set and your own needs/capabilities. For example, does a "pro" camera really need automatic exposure modes? For some, yes. For some, no.

cao · Aug 29, 2007

jstraw said:
But most of us would have more pride and more sense to come here, blame our tools and expect support and absolution from peers. Coming here to warn us that X, Y or Z camera isn't to be trusted was foolishness.

And I should hope most of us would have enough dignity not to kick another in the teeth even if he was rash. This has been a very embarrassing if perversely enlightening experience for me.

In other words: LAY OFF GUYS! YOUR RUDE ADMONITIONS MAKE APUG LOOK LIKE A BUNCH OF JERKS! I want APUG to look a place that people would be welcome and forgiven human failings. Next time you think to rub salt in the wounds, don't!

I am going to ask the moderators to politely close this thread since I think nothing is to be gained by heaping more indignity on the OP.

k_jupiter · Aug 29, 2007

If you think that being polite is to say "Poor Baby" when someone comes in here to complain and blame a piece of equipment for their own mistake, you are sadly mistaken. That's unprofessional. It's better that the OP grow a bit and give the professional photography field a bit more dignity by owning up to his mistake rather than blaming a sensor for not catching his repeated error. There have been no words of admonishment that Daniel didn't deserve.

tim in san jose

Mamiya RZ IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL camera

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