Mamiya RZ IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL camera

Status
Not open for further replies.

Daniel-OB

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
54
Format
35mm
I got RZ Pro II. It is said on many places such a camera is professional tool. Well. Is it? I just do not think so, at least by my own standard what is a professional camera.

Professional camera must be fail free and able to take a shoot at very different weather and temperature conditions, and also to free a photographer from technicalities. It just must take a shoot, period.

Amateur wistling going home no matter camera shut or not, same same. Next time he will repeat if camera failed.

I had an important even to shoot, many people in a group. Distributing people, selecting background, thinking about exposure time for waterfall in background, use 50 mm ULD lens, scanning everybody’s face like a snake through a viewfinder, make everybody in good mood and to smile,... puf.

Reposition the group, click, click. Three important shut done, and one more left. Than suddenly I realized technical problem with a camera. That freaken camera shoot with a slide in. I took a slide out and shut. Recolect quickly part of the group and reshut.

I just cannot accept it to think about camera when shooting. It is not a first time that such a camera fails, and I do not consider the slide is photographers fail. It just blames me and my business. Simple, just not acceptable.

Mamiya RZ Pro II is a amateurish camera, in spite of good lenses.
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
I have had every type of camera fail at one time or another for one reason or another. And, all of them were so-called professional cameras.

This includes a shutter tear in the focal plane shutter of a Speed Graphic and a whole host of other problems such as battery failure and autofocus failure. I think that after you get over your anger you might take a look at what caused the problem.

My first Mamiya had the shutter freeze and the lens freeze on the camera. I had to send it in for repair.

These things happen.

Compare that with Windows. That is supposedly professional as well!



PE
 

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Messages
19,974
Location
Honolulu, HI
Format
Large Format
So are virtually all LF cameras amateur cameras, because you can make an exposure with the darkslide in? the lenscap on? without remembering to stop down the lens or set the shutter?

I thought professionals were supposed to know their equipment and have the routine down.
 

aldevo

Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2004
Messages
949
Location
Cambridge, M
Format
Multi Format
At the very least, a few instances of every mechcanical device ever mass-produced will suffer a failure.

Tens of thousands of professional photographers have used the RZ, RZ Pro and Pro II for more than 15 years. Resale values were quite good for the system's bodies (which tend to have difficult lives) and lenses until about 2003 when DSLRs really took hold in the wedding photo market. I doubt that the system's resale values would have remained robust in the pro market for as long as they did if the system was patently unreliable.

I'm sorry you had problems but as one professional photographer told me - if you're a professional and you cannot complete a job because you were struck by lightning then your client is entitled to blame you for being where the lightning wanted to be.
 

SuzanneR

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Messages
5,977
Location
Massachusetts
Format
Multi Format
Sounds like photographer error. Although, I have to say... mine has yet to let me make an exposure with the dark slide in.

Sometimes the shutter gets stuck... usually when the battery is low. And mine was purchased used, but I always keep a back up camera in the car at my jobs.
 

Nick Zentena

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
4,666
Location
Italia
Format
Multi Format
Ya didn't the interlocks stop the shutter from firing with the darkslide in?:confused:

Of course a pro would switch to the back up body and have the same problem
 
OP
OP

Daniel-OB

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
54
Format
35mm
Expected responses. Professional camera must be ROBUST. What robust mens: not sensitive on outside errors. It is now known in industry as Six Sigma. That is how pro camera must be designed. One example more: many ways to design gears are, but the "good" way is to design it so their funcionality is insensitive on production errors. That is THE wisdom. Eveone can make a camera, and so does today. But to make a robust is something like a Leica in 35 mm. Well is dark slide photographers error is not acceptable. If a camera is large dop not means it is a pro. Sorry but it is I think.
Normally RZ does not shoot with a slide in. It is camera failure if does.
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
The Speed Graphic was THE pro camera of its day. It had no interlocks and no safeties. It had no auto meter. You were on your own and expected to perform. When I was shooting from the air with one, I was up there for 8 hours and no error was tolerated. I had to return with every shot counting and no excuses.

PE
 
OP
OP

Daniel-OB

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
54
Format
35mm
Aldevo
At the very least, a few instances of every mechcanical device ever mass-produced will suffer a failure.

Accepted, but how you explain it to the customer? We are paying thousands of dollars to avoid it.
 
OP
OP

Daniel-OB

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
54
Format
35mm
PE
You were on your own

That is I call full blown a pro camera. That is how all film Leicas are made, even has a lot of wires in. If you have to depend on camera as RZ is I call it (you know how). I just beleived in that camera but no more. We both have to perform but it is not a case, whosever error is.
 

Nick Zentena

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
4,666
Location
Italia
Format
Multi Format
Are Leicas those RF cameras? What happens when you leave the lens cap on?

I still ask. How come the interlocks didn't stop you from firing the camera shutter? I'm drawing a bit of a blank but shouldn't there be a LED flashing if the darkslide is still in when you push the shutter?
 

JHannon

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Messages
969
Location
Boston, MA
Format
Multi Format

I bet you had to make sure that focal plane shutter was open when using a lens shutter.
 

Shawn Dougherty

Subscriber
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
4,129
Location
Pittsburgh
Format
Multi Format
Sounds like you're just angry. You made a mistake and now the RZ, which is used by MANY professionals (some of them quite successful) is not a professional tool? Come on, I feel your pain but you need to learn from the mistake and move on. Best. Shawn
 
OP
OP

Daniel-OB

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
54
Format
35mm
Nick
RZ is made with a good idea, not to fire with a dark slide in. But it fails again and again. I paid a lot to have something to relly on when techicalities comes out. I have so many thinks around me when shooting and it is possible to forget for some techical detail, as slide e.g. especialy when you know camera will care for it. Should I incorporate sound speaker in the lens to make sure shooter fired,... What is it we pay thusands of dollars for. Something that might work might not. It better then to get Speed Graphic and then you know that no warning from camera will come, so all on you... Eh I just do not know what to say. What more camera cost the less reliable and more thinks on photographer to think about.
View camera is unreplaceable.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP

Daniel-OB

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
54
Format
35mm
Shawn
Yes I accept slide shuuld be pulled out by me not by camera and I failed.
RZ is made NOT TO FIRE when slide is in, and I paid for that feature. So how you now explain it? Can a pro camera work that way?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
My RZ has failed to detect the speed setting of the film on the back in use. It was due to dirty contacts.

I was able to detect it when the shutter speed and f stop data did not click in my mind. Something was wrong, and experience told me to check with a meter. Sure enough the internal film ISO was being read wrong.

I removed the back and cleaned the contacts, put it back on and the speed matched my meter to within 1/2 stop.

I have an old ETRS back for my ETRSi. There is no slide protection. So, I just stay alert!

PE
 

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Messages
19,974
Location
Honolulu, HI
Format
Large Format
Hmmm...The older Bronicas have the "Filminder" back that won't fire with the darkslide in, only lets you double-expose if you remove the back and advance the shutter and replace the back, and most are switchable between 120 and 220 (the earliest ones were 120 only). I would have thought the ETRS would have preserved those features.
 

Nick Zentena

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
4,666
Location
Italia
Format
Multi Format
Are you using the latest RZ backs? IIRC the early ones might be missing interlocks.

IIRC the early Bronica ETR backs are also missing the interlocks.

I got to admit I'm more likely to be cursing the fact I forgot to remove the darkslide
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format

David, the interlock tab is absent on ETRS backs, and therefore there is no interlock.

Otherwise from the RB - RZ, all versions have an interlock with the darkslide.

So, I have seen variation in the Bronica series but not in the Mamiya series.

I got a big price break on the ETRS back when I reported this to the seller when I bought the back second hand. This national dealer was very good about the error. They missed the tiny pin that does the job.

It was CALUMET. I was very happy with their service.

PE
 

Greg_E

Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
948
Format
Medium Format
Well, if you are so unhappy with it, send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you.
 

MVNelson

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
5,345
Location
North Florid
Format
4x5 Format
Anything a human being makes can fail and most can be repaired...humans often fail and it appears they are more difficult if not impossible to repair...

Miles
 

Changeling1

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
Messages
655
Location
Southern Cal
Format
4x5 Format
I agree...

You shudda bought a Bronica GS-1.

Much better glass also!
 

JBrunner

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
7,429
Location
PNdub
Format
Medium Format
Interestingly enough, I used the RZ for 15 years as in a professional capacity as a commercial photographer. I made plenty of mistakes, but the camera never missed a beat. I only used the back up body once in a while when I felt it should be exercised. I have nothing but praise for the RZ system. If your camera needs repair, and most machines as complex as a camera do, from time to time, that hardly invalidates one of the all time best work horse camera systems, as a professional camera. As a matter of fact, the premise is laughable. (to me, for you, of course, are entitled to think what you want)
 

bdial

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
7,469
Location
North East U.S.
Format
Multi Format
A respected Aeronautical engineer I once knew used to say that a "safety device is only safe if you don't rely on it".
That the camera may have malfunctioned has nothing to do with whether or not it's a suitable device for professionals.
 

Drew B.

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
2,310
Location
New England
Format
4x5 Format
Daniel, your camera isn't working correctly...you need to have repairs made. the majority of these units work perfectly well. I've never had such a problem as you described. I would say, that using an RZ/RB, calls for the photographer to work very slowly: tripod - film - check settings - meter, compose, etc. You would have noticed the slide in if you moved more carefully and slowly.
drew
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…