Mamiya RB67 - doing something a little different

dugrant153 · Sep 20, 2016

Hi everyone,
So I may have an opportunity to get an RB67 Professional (non SD) with 90mm lens, 180mm lens, 2 x 120 backs, WLF and prism finder for a price. I have some credit at my local camera store and have thought about getting more digital stuff but I kind of feel the itch to try something different.

I do a lot of documentary-style work (street photography, candid shots, non-posed wedding work) and am looking to bring something a little different; Maybe just for my own fun as I have a few 35mm cameras and digital cameras as well as a Pentax 645 system.

I'd like to get some thoughts as to the use of the RB67 and the results of 6x7 negs and images. I'm contemplating handheld or potentially with a monopod. The 645 system is great but I kind of feel that push for something way bigger to get the thin DOF look and just to go big. 645 is nice but maybe I just need a tad more "oomph" in my negs. 4x5 and 8x10 were considered but I think that starts to get a bit too bulky ... and they don't have that at my camera store right now.

Would appreciate any thoughts on this!!

Current setup:
Canon 1D Mark IIN / Canon 1NRS
Leica M6
Fuji XT10
Pentax 645

pthornto · Sep 20, 2016

The RB67 delivers in the oomph department....

Not sure how much more of a quality jump you would see in going from 645 to 6x7. I love the size of the negatives and find them very nice to print and the proportions work for my preferred print sizes. However a couple of points to keep in mind. 1. The camera is heavy. Believe what people say. Lenses weigh about a kilo apiece...no joke! They are great lenses and most of them are optimized for portraiture so great shallow dof and nice out of focus rendering can be expected from most of them. 2. It is a very deliberate camera. I own a TLR and the rb67 is quite a bit slower as you need wind both the film and also cock the mirror/shutter. Also keep in mind that the mirror is not instant return so having to cock the mirror to see your composition can also be a bit slower.

I haven't had much trouble handholding with 127mm and 65mm lenses. I find the 65mm a nice focal length as it has just a bit more dof and I find I need all I can get when handholding. The mirror going off is loud but the camera has such a mass and the damping is good enough that the vibrations seem to not be a problem. Overall it can deliver great results and like any camera just takes some time to learn how to best put it to use.

horacekenneth · Sep 20, 2016

I imagine that you could do better than an rb67 to get thin DOF. Even an RZ67 with the 110 would probably be noticeably better in that regard but I haven't used one. RB67 lenses are comparatively slow (a lot of f4.5 and 3.5's; 110 for rz is 2.8)

Theo Sulphate · Sep 20, 2016

First, I'd recommend the Pro S or SD over the base Professional: it has the interlocks and is nicer to use. Even so, any RB67 is capable of producing excellent images.

I've used my RB's handheld in the city and have had excellent results (90mm and 140mm lenses). The 50mm and 65mm lenses are good and are bargains today. Most of my lenses are C lenses, which have better coating, a bit newer (even though they're decades old), and ergonomics / looks more to my taste. I have non-C lenses, too, and they work just fine.

The RB67 is a great system. It may be a challenge to make candid shots with it - it is noticeable! Also: make sure the backs have good light seals.

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 20, 2016

25 years later and I still pull out my RB Pro SD when it doesn't feel like an 8x10 day! As long as the price is right, I say go for it!

flavio81 · Sep 20, 2016

Go for it!!

The RB67 is my favorite medium format camera. It has no limits on its versatility, the lenses are great. Yes, it is heavy but still manageable. It is very stable for handheld work (the mirror is well damped) so no problems on handholding it. If you have a helper that reloads you the second 120-film magazine while you shoot, then you can shoot almost without interruption, since loading a new magazine is very quick (put the dark slide, unlock the locks that hold the magazine, pull the magazine out, insert new magazine, lock the magazine, remove the dark slide). Far faster than reloading a Pentax 6x7 *, faster than reloading a 35mm camera.

It requires you to cock the shutter and advance the film separately but this becomes second nature.

horacekenneth said:
I imagine that you could do better than an rb67 to get thin DOF. Even an RZ67 with the 110 would probably be noticeably better in that regard but I haven't used one. RB67 lenses are comparatively slow (a lot of f4.5 and 3.5's; 110 for rz is 2.8)

RB lenses have already very thin depth of field. Lenses such as the 90/3.8, 127/3.8 and 180/4.5 give all the thin DOF you would need in most situations.

* a pain in the a$$ to reload

Alan Gales · Sep 20, 2016

I used to have an RZ. Get the "L" grip if you want to shoot hand held. It makes the camera a lot better balanced and also gives you a nice place to mount a flash.

Larry the sailor · Sep 20, 2016

If the price is good go for it.
As others have said, the sucker is heavy. If you are going to carry it around get a good strap for it.
Optech makes a good wide strap that has the correct connectors, made a world of difference. (B&H Carries it)
There is also a 6X4.5 back available for it. (I'd trade someone straight up for a 6X7 120 )

M Carter · Sep 20, 2016

I did tons of catalog work with the RB ProS in the 90's, still shoot the same rig today. I only had non-C lenses but had no issues, shot a lot of high-detailed things like knits, and the color seps were always dynamite. RB negs on the lightbox with a loupe look almost 3D.

You can handhold it, and yes, there's an L-grip for the RB which helps but isn't totally necessary. I'd say the bigger issue is getting it to where you want to shoot. I'd look into a good quality large backpack or a Pelican case with wheels and handle.

A prism is handy - get the model 2, which is a sleek black prism that looks like the Rz prism - I found it to be a bit brighter, and the original prism is just phugly to put on such a cool-looking retro rig. Just a hell of a camera and very robust.

MattKing · Sep 20, 2016

Is that the RB67 in the window at the North Vancouver branch of Kerrisdale Cameras ?

If so, it looks great, and I would assume that it comes with a short warranty.

If it is a Pro and not a Pro S, which means it lacks some useful interlocks. But it will certainly be capable of fine results.

The RB is large, but with an L grip and a WLF it is hand holdable - thanks in particular to the rotating back.

I would recommend the 140mm macro or the relatively small 127mm lens.

Doc W · Sep 21, 2016

I love my RB. I use it the same way as Andrew. If it isn't a LF day, out comes the RB. You get used to the weight. I usually take a tripod except on the brightest of days. I tried a monopod but didn't really like it. If you get the RB and want the L bracket for hand-holding, let me know. I have one that I never use.

dugrant153 · Sep 21, 2016

MattKing said:
Is that the RB67 in the window at the North Vancouver branch of Kerrisdale Cameras ?

If so, it looks great, and I would assume that it comes with a short warranty.

If it is a Pro and not a Pro S, which means it lacks some useful interlocks. But it will certainly be capable of fine results.

The RB is large, but with an L grip and a WLF it is hand holdable - thanks in particular to the rotating back.

I would recommend the 140mm macro or the relatively small 127mm lens.

Yeah, that's the one! Comes with a 30 day warranty at least. Even a Polaroid back but only useful for the discounted FP100 type films....

It definitely is large... I have to ask myself if I want to lug it around.... but that look... if I can somehow make it fit my documentary approach, it'd be pretty awesome.
I think it's actually about the same weight as my Canon 1NRS + Sigma 24mm F1.4.... super heavy that setup....

Greg Heath · Sep 21, 2016

I have had the RB67 now for about 4 years. Find the Handle for it. It's much easier to carry around and also you can swing it as a weapon if you are ever attacked in an alley. The camera is wicked heavy. yes. great depth of field. I like the RB67 as it is a full manual camera. The RZ67 you have to have a battery for the shutter to fire. I sold the 50mm lens, as I thought I was going to sell the whole kit. But I have held onto it for the 90, 127mm, and 180mm lenses. great lenses.

Here are my RB67 flickr tags.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kb2qqm/tags/rb67/

Once you buy the RB67, and you are sick of carrying it, you will have to get a Hasselblad. The Hassy's Zeiss lens has a crispness my old 67 cannot touch. But, the 67 is still a fun camera to shoot with. Good Luck.

Greg

bernard_L · Sep 21, 2016

I kind of feel that push for something way bigger to get the thin DOF look

Going by numbers rather than by instinct. Results from http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html, interpolated when exact f-number is not available. Subject distance 3m. Total DOF front-to-back:

670; 90mm/3.5 : 0.44m
645; 75/2.8: 0.40m
645; 80/2.8: 0.35m
645; 80/1.9 (Mamiya, b.t.w.): 0.24m

Greg Heath · Sep 21, 2016

Oh, I forgot. The RB67, you can trip the mirror to only shoot with the leaf shutter, so that there is not the mirror clunk too. When you want no shake...

Greg

nworth · Sep 24, 2016

When you mentioned the RB67 my first thought was - heavy. This is not an easy camera to haul around. I have one with a nice selection of C lenses. The quality improvement over my Pentax 645 is significant, but at a cost of weight and much slower operation. The RB67 is a rather strange beast. It uses between the lens shutters, which changes the operational procedures compared to focal plane shutter cameras. For instance, you must be sure the dark slide is in place before changing lenses (there are no interlocks). The RB67 is entirely manual, so it is fairly slow, and procedure is important. Mine does not have a prism finder, so working from a low angle is generally necessary to use the viewfinder. That is quite possible, but a little strange.

As for your other options, a 4X5 would be lighter but more expensive to obtain and to use. You have to buy not only the camera, but quite expensive lenses (usually in shutters), tripods (although the one you would use for the RB67 would certainly do), focusing clothes, film holders, developing equipment, etc. Film is less available than for the RB67 and is now quite expensive, running about $2 a shot for name brand black and white (about half that for off brands) and almost $5 a shot for color. View cameras are slow to use, fussy about procedure, bur quite rewarding. For 8X10, just multiply everything said about 4X5 by 4.

flavio81 · Sep 24, 2016

Greg Heath said:
Oh, I forgot. The RB67, you can trip the mirror to only shoot with the leaf shutter, so that there is not the mirror clunk too. When you want no shake...

Greg

True, but the camera itself has very very low mirror shake. The procedure you mention is also useful to minimize shutter lag. Shutter lag is high on the RB67.

dugrant153 · Sep 25, 2016

Ladies and gentlemen.... so this just happened.
Thanks to all your comments and after pondering on them for a bit (and after playing with the camera in the store), I decided to go for it.
It looks to be in great order but have yet to put a test roll through it. Quick shout out to you all on APUG for helping me with the info.

Included:
RB67 Pro (not S or SD)
90mm F3.8 regular
180mm F4.5 C lens
120 back cartridge (Pro S) - light seals still ok?
120 back cartridge (Pro) - light seal foam appeals to be gunking up.
Prism finder - super heavy!
Polaroid attachment for (now discontinued) peel-apart type Instant Film (keeping an eye on New55 and Impossible Project!!!).
Overall condition of everything: Other than some leatherette peel (slight) and some some light seal gunking, for a camera from 1970-73, it's in exceptional condition. Looked better than a lot of newer Pro SD's I've seen online. I sense this was a "studio queen" perhaps.

Weight:
Not as heavy as I thought it would be, especially if I keep the attachments down. About similar to my old Bronica ETRS 645 with a prism finder and grip (that's gone now). I also have newer Sigma Art lenses for some work I do, which are chunky and heavy. Perhaps trucking around a wedding venue with a crapload of cameras attached to me has prepared me for the Mamiya RB weight! hah

Bulk:
It's bulky. But in my preferred configuration (RB67 + 90mm + 120 back + WLF + handholding), it actually works for me because I have long fingers. The knobs and dials are all where they should be for me. The bulk, in this case, is preferred. However, the reality of the bulkiness is that I'll basically be carrying around the equivalent of a small cat.

Feel:
The tactile feel of this camera and the possibility of creating some amazing 6x7 film images from it has lured me away from my digital cameras. I'm honestly tired of dead hard drives, corrupt files and staring at a monitor all the time. It has it's place but it's nice to be able to have this odd connection with a chunk of metal... a positive side effective of the celluloid medium.

Would appreciate any info for perhaps light seal repair kits for the 120 backs and perhaps focusing screens with focusing aids. Would also like to consider wide angle... maybe along the lines of 20-40mm (35mm equivalent range).

MattKing · Sep 25, 2016

Congratulations!

Jon Goodman supplied my light seal kits - this may help: http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/sealreplacement.html

I really like my 50mm lens.

Mike Butkus has a whole bunch of manuals on his site for Mamiya products - this index is useful: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya/mamiya_lenses_accessories/mamiya_lenses_accessories.htm

As is this one: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya.htm

Neil Grant · Sep 25, 2016

Weight:
Not as heavy as I thought it would be, especially if I keep the attachments down.

Would appreciate any info for perhaps light seal repair kits for the 120 backs and perhaps focusing screens with focusing aids. Would also like to consider wide angle... maybe along the lines of 20-40mm (35mm equivalent range).[/QUOTE]

The camera isn't all that dense - mostly it's just an empty box. So it's a bit deceptive when you first pick it up. The model you have is devoid of many (all?) of the interlocks of the newer ones - but these can become sticky over the years and cause trouble. There are two wide angle lenses for the RB system: 65 and 50mm. Neither are really wide when you compare what's available in 35mm format. Best to think of them equivalent to a 35 and 28mm - but with some 'spare' image top and bottom. There is a 37mm fisheye which you may find too specialised. The camera is really heavy with this one!

flavio81 · Sep 25, 2016

dugrant153 said:
Would appreciate any info for perhaps light seal repair kits for the 120 backs and perhaps focusing screens with focusing aids. Would also like to consider wide angle... maybe along the lines of 20-40mm (35mm equivalent range).

I have also the split rangefinder screen and i consider the regular screen better for focusing. I don't think you'll need any focusing aid, to be honest.

There are at least three wideangles you can use:

The 65mm which is equivalent to about 32mm in 35mm terms,
The 50mm which is about 25mm in 35mm terms. I own that one and i like it a lot.

The 37mm is a fisheye, it is heavy, expensive, big, but by most accounts it is fantastic.

dugrant153 · Sep 25, 2016

The model you have is devoid of many (all?) of the interlocks of the newer ones - but these can become sticky over the years and cause trouble.

Anything I should keep an eye out with respect to interlocks? (Not really sure what to look for ... also, any good Canadian places for repair would be great info to have!!).

I have also the split rangefinder screen and i consider the regular screen better for focusing. I don't think you'll need any focusing aid, to be honest.

I am getting on quite well with the regular screen. Even when it's kind of dark, I'm usually able to tell (approximately) where focus should be... but let's see when the negatives come back.

Hmm... some good wide angle options to consider... I'll have to think about it.

Theo Sulphate · Sep 25, 2016

I'm not sure which interlocks your RB67 may or may not have. My Pro-S has these:

- ensure dark slide is in before removing back

- ensure dark slide is out before releasing shutter

- ensure film has been wound on before releasing shutter a second time (unless multi-exposure lever has been moved)

- ensure body and lens are cocked before removing the lens

Whenever I release the shutter, I wind the film and then wind (cock) the body/lens. I think this can be done in either order. However, if the film is not wound, an interlock prevents me from double exposing unless I've moved the multi-exposure lever.

Terry Breedlove · Sep 25, 2016

I have shot with my RB67 for decades and still own it. Now I shoot a Hasselblad and sometimes really miss the close focusing of the RB.

rayonline_nz · Sep 25, 2016

nworth said:
For instance, you must be sure the dark slide is in place before changing lenses (there are no interlocks).

When the mirror is down do you still need the darkslide when you change lenses?

Mamiya RB67 - doing something a little different

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