Mamiya RB67 - anything to look for?

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PaulWA

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paul ron said:
it will be bulky n a bit heavy especially with a prism mounted on it... but its very doable.

perhaps looking for a rangefinder camera may be a better option for you to investigate?
Click to expand...

I've seen the fuji rangefinders, but many seem to be fairly abused. Is there a wide-ish or wide angle rangefinder that's serviceable, affordable and either 6x6 or 6x7? I should investigate these regardless, but the rb67 seems to be such a reliable, well made beast (by Internet lore) that it'll be hard to find one in not-working condition.

Any advice much appreciated!
 

Theo Sulphate

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Some lenses, the 140mm, the 65mm, the 50mm, have a floating lens element which is adjusted by a ring on the lens in addition to bellows focusing.

I find this a lot of fun, actually. The Hasselblad 50/4 CF FLE is like this.

What you do is roughly determine the focus distance, set that distance on the ring, then focus normally with the bellows. It gives you just that added bit of sharpness.

As for Fuji rangefinders, I have a Fuji GW690III (6x9 format). My understanding is that these were originally designed for high volume tourist photographers (e.g. photographing groups of visitors at a scenic site in Japan) and are therefore very robust. The shell is rubber and plastic, but the actual body is metal. It is 100% mechanical, no meter, fixed lens, no interchangeable backs. There are 6x7 versions as well if you prefer that format.

The wide version is the GSW, such as GSW670III (65mm lens as opposed to 90mm lens). Some info here:

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/gw.html

However, having RB67's, the Fuji 6x9, and Hasselblads, I really like the RB67. It's fun to use, highly modular and flexible, and I also like the degree of involvement when reading the bellows scale or setting the lens rings.
 
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Doc W

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I have used an RB67 quite a bit and really enjoy it. Yes, it is heavy and you will need a substantial backpack. You will also discover early on that you might not want a lot of lenses just because of the extra weight. I use the 90mm and 180mm the most and sometimes go with only the 90mm.
Here are a few tips.

Get the most recent Pro-SD you can find. These cameras are getting old and a lot of them were used as workhorses, so go for low mileage. Make sure the bellows is good too. I have seen RBs with bellows getting pretty threadbare.

Make sure any lenses you get are accurate. I have come across some pretty sloppy shutters in RB lenses.

Make sure the tripod you have is rated for the weight. An RB with lens can easily be 5 lbs.

Once you get used to an RB, it is very easy to use and to carry around, despite the weight. My wife won't let me bring LF cameras on vacation so the RB has to do a lot work and it rises to the challenge. I have hiked as well as walked around big cities with it and I got used to the weight.
 
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PaulWA

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What is the consensus on the bronica sq range? For example, the sq-b or sq-a? I do love square format, I find it helps simplify composition, although 6x7 is still pretty square in shape.

Does it compare, build wise, to an rb67?

Edit: I meant the bronica gs-1! That's a 6x7 without rotating back but does have a 6x6 back available which would be neat.
 
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flavio81

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Hi Paul,

If you are a strong man, or even a half-strong man, you will love the RB67. I find it is the perfect SLR bar none, I like it even more than 35mm gear.

As for the models, all of them are good, but the older "Pro" model does not tell you the orientation (vertical/horizontal) in the viewfinder. The Pro-S does. The Pro-SD allows you to use more variety of lenses -- the "L" lenses don't fit cameras previous to the SD. But the "K/L" lenses fit all of them.

As for potential shortcomings, the foam seals usually need replacement but that's not a difficult thing so i wouldn't worry too much. The shutter mechanisms can be sometimes too slow or sticky, but that's a function of the lens.

Now, potential problems on the lenses are sometimes lens separation - where cemented lens elements start separating due to glue deterioration, leaving a spot that can be seen as a "rainbow-colored" spot, or sometimes as a clear spot. This is not an easy thing to fix and many Mamiya RB lenses sometimes are affected. But if the separation is small, or off from the center of the lens, it will not impact image quality significantly.

As for the lenses, in general all of them are very sharp and have fantastic bokeh. Some older, very old single-coated lenses are not as good as later designs, in particular the 65mm wideangle which was later replaced by a much improved 65mm "floating element" version, and the early 90mm lens with was later replaced by a shorter version on the "C" series.

Multicoated lenses are marked by a green "C". "K" and "K/L" lenses are also multicoated.

K/L lenses are on the whole improved optically, but why bother when even the "C" lenses are just great?

As for the 50mm, i own the 50mm f4.5 "C" lens and it's a great wideangle, low on distortion and sharp.

Final advice: READ THE MANUAL BEFORE OPERATING THE RB -- you do need to read the manual because it has many interlocks. Don't force ANYTHING.
 

flavio81

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PS: I also own the 90/3.8C lens, it is a perfect standard lens and very versatile.
I also have the 127/3.8C but i have never used it. Still, it is smaller and lighter than the 90, and makes the camera more compact and light.

Then i have the 180/4.5C which i've yet to use but all samples on the 'net suggest it has perfect bokeh and great sharpness. It is also not too heavy, so it was a good buy.

As you probably know, the 50mm is about 24mm in 35mm terms, the 90mm about 45mm, etc.
 
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PaulWA

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That all sounds excellent. Except the slow shutter thing - I'm a bit wary of mechanical shutters as I shoot velvia and need accuracy. Are they easily serviceable?
 
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PaulWA

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Just found a mamiya rz67 pro ii with 120 back and waist level finder. Are these any good? They seem less popular than the rb67, but are newer. Looks like an electronic shutter, 1/400th leaf, and generally modern appointments. I'll still be metering with my sekonic digipro.
 

paul ron

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Slow shutters? they only get slow when they've been neglected service for a long period of time. They are accurate.. if serviced. Thats for all leaf shutters regardless of brand.. they need servicing.

Like your car.. dont service it n its junk in no time at all.
 

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Regarding RB and RZ the RB is a purely mechanical camera, no battery! The RZ came later and is an electronic camera, check out the description on Wikipedia.com
 

TheFlyingCamera

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For another option to consider, if you want square, but like the bellows focusing of the RB, look for a Rollei SL66 of whatever flavor (SL66, SL66E, SL66X, SL66SE). It too is a tank, but not quite as bulky as the RB, has the top-of-the-line Zeiss optics, and even has limited movements on the front standard (tilt, if I recall correctly). The SL66X and SE also offer OTF flash metering. On the downside (depending on how you look at it) the focal plane shutter offers flash sync at 1/30th or slower.
 
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PaulWA

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Good analogy. Nice to know these bargains are still usable and will continue to be.

Would it be fair to assume the fully mechanical option may well be a safer bet for servicing in the future? Or is the rz67 pro ii still a serviceable, long term option? Both sound like absolute work horses.
 

paul ron

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The RZ is an amazing camera. It will serve you well till it dies.. how that will take is not forseeable.

I dont know if electronics will be serviceable, parts (electronic circuit boards) are much harder to swap in cameras. I can tell you I wont touch them. Mechanical cameras will always be serviceable, plenty of old mechanical cameras still out there. Why do you think you can buy a $4000 system for only $350 today? Cruise the collectibles n see how many electronic cameras are in there?

Cuba still has our 50s cars on the road don't they? there are many DIYers repairing them now too. Service manuals are free on the internet for almost any mechanical camera.

DIY will just become part of the hobby.

.
 

AlanC

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One thing you get with the RB67 is superb lens quality. I have the 127mm K/L and it delivers prints which have a quite distinctive character. A friend has the 90 and this is the same.

Alan
 

Andrew O'Neill

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My RB67 is the my go to camera when it does't feel like a large format day. I have three lenses. The 50, 127, and KL 350. All three lenses deliver very sharp images.
Here is an image I shot with the 350 on TMY-2.

Still Standing

Old bank at Rhyolite. Been shot a million times but only a couple times by me!
 

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If you can get an RZ for an even approximately-similar price, then do so. Don't be frightened of "electronics" - yeah it can break, but electronics are a lot more robust than any mechanical contrivance which will be expected to require lubrication and will wear out. An RZ shutter will NEVER drift appreciably and does not require regular service, unlike the clockwork monstrosities you'll find in a mechanical camera. Electronics is eminently repairable too, just not by the people who have spent their whole lives fixing clockwork.

An RZ will also give you access to a few more-modern lenses that are not available on the RB, e.g. 110/2.8. And you get metering if you really want it, but most of us just do it manually even with the prism installed.

Yes, batteries do go flat... but you need to shoot about 400 rolls to kill a 4SR44 and the camera will warn you for the last 25% or so, which means you have loads of time to get a new battery in there. Or, you can spend an extra $5 and have a spare sitting in your bag.

When buying lenses and there is a floating option available, BUY IT. It will cost a fair bit more, but makes a big difference.

Yes, you can focus really close with the 50 because of the bellows, but the quality will be poor because the lens is not corrected for spherical aberration at those short distances. If you want to make macro photos, you should use the 140 M-LA (or K/L) with the floating element which is designed to go all the way to 1:1 and retain sharpness across the frame.
 

Theo Sulphate

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There will be plenty of functioning RB67s when the last RZ67 is tossed in the dumpster.



Periodic maintenance will keep the RB alive. Although electronics is indeed reliable (and I've worked in the electronics industry for 40 years), the more subsystems you add, the higher the risk of failure. With cameras, often that one failing subsystem will render the camera inoperable. Not only that, the use of no longer made proprietary components means that a donor body will need to be found to do the repair. If the RZ has simple discrete components or very common components (I admit to not knowing), then that's certainly better.

All that said, I wouldn't let it keep me from owning an RZ if I didn't already have RB's. All the positive things you mentioned about it above are true. Also, I have Nikon F4's, a Minolta Maxxum, and a Canon 7NE - all 100% dependent on electronics and I love them. I hope they last as long as I do, but I know my Nikon F and RB's will outlast me.
 
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PaulWA

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Thanks for all the help guys. I found a quite bargain tastic rz67 pro ii with 50mm rz lens for just £75 more than I would pay for an rb67 pro sd, so I took the plunge! It's in seemingly excellent condition and fully tested.

I figured that, even if in ten years it's borked, I'll have had a completely wonderful camera for all that time that, frankly, I would previously have only dreamt of.
If I don't get on with it, I reckon I can make my money back selling and if I do get along with it I may wind up getting an rb67 anyway . I also figured I'm happy using my yashica electro 35 cameras, my canon ae1-p and my nikon d200, all of which are now "old" in their own ways and don't let me down, so I'm hopeful.

When it arrives, I'll post obligatory pics and hopefully a scan or two of my first roll of velvia or ektar through it.

Thanks for all the helps guys. By all accounts the 50mm is a top lens, and I hope to supplement it with a "normal" lens in the future.
 

paul ron

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You have the right attitude n a price that is superb! You wont regret the RZ, its an amazing machine.

BTW the build of an RB has adjustments that will compensate wear for at least 100 years, if you've ever seen the guts you would appreciate the quality n thought that went into them. Mamiya counted on their cameras to be used for extremely heavy commercial use, work horses.

I would say its safe to say they did the same for the RZ, it may not be as delicate as some may think. BUT.. be warned.. the electronics wont be around to fix them in the future as electronics evolves. With prices so cheap.. use them to death! Enjoy the benefits of the lenses n features while they are still in good working condition.

Nothing lasts forever besides an RB67!

 
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PaulWA

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Cheers guv. I'm really excited about it, read the instructions several times today and went through Bruce Percy's Art of Adventure for inspiration, so I'm totally ready to get some velvia in the light.
 

MattKing

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PaulWA

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Yeah, I saw that - very cool. I just need to find ones with the adapter!

I can't believe how cheap they are, for such good glass. Even the soft focus 180mm is available for just a few hundred quid - retailed for well over a grand back in the day!
 

flavio81

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PaulWA said:
That all sounds excellent. Except the slow shutter thing - I'm a bit wary of mechanical shutters as I shoot velvia and need accuracy. Are they easily serviceable?
Click to expand...

Yes, easily serviceable for a camera repair guy.

TheFlyingCamera said:
For another option to consider, if you want square, but like the bellows focusing of the RB, look for a Rollei SL66 of whatever flavor (SL66, SL66E, SL66X, SL66SE).
Click to expand...

The SL66 is in my opinion the finest (highest quality) medium format SLR. It is more expensive than the Mamiya RB/RZ and more expensive than the swedish stuff.
 
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