Mamiya RB67 - anything to look for?

PaulWA · Apr 7, 2016

I'm enjoying shooting my rollei old standard, but the uncoated tessar 3.5 is fairly unsaturated for colours (I can do portraits with velvia - seriously) and it's not stunningly sharp, although 6x6 prints are pretty beautiful from the local university lab and their Noritsu. I love the square format, too.

So, to improve my colour shots and hopefully achieve a little more sharpness, I'm thinking of getting a Mamiya RB67 - seems to be a bit of a legend. Being based in the UK, I was wondering whether there are any issues worth looking for, or particular models/lenses to look for? I'm hoping to get a wide angle - I've heard there is a 50mm lens that's nice and, thanks to the bellows system, focuses quite close. KEH seems a popular choice to buy from so if I struggle to find a serviced example here in the UK, I suspect that will be my next port of call.

Any tips greatly appreciated. Particularly if there is a similar system that shoots 6x6 rather than 6x7, although cropping in digital software (ERK) is something I'd likely do if there isn't an alternative for quality outside of Hasselblad systems, which is too far out of my price range.

juan · Apr 7, 2016

Sirius glass should be along any second to tell you to get a Hassy

mweintraub · Apr 7, 2016

I'd look at getting a later Pro-SD for it's better interlocking system.

juan said:
Sirius glass should be along any second to tell you to get a Hassy

And then I'll come around and tell you Hassys are too finicky and the RBs are great.

Then he'll come and tell me to read the manual, and I'll tell him that following the manual still includes too many steps to follow (aka, finiky).

Kyle M. · Apr 7, 2016

The Pro-S and Pro-SD are the ones to get, both have the same interlocks and the Pro SD adds backs that have mechanical light seals as opposed to the foam seals of the older Pro and Pro-S backs. Also the Pro-SD has a slightly larger lens mount and I believe theres 1 or 2 lenses that can only be used on the SD. The original Pro doesn't have any interlock to keep you from firing the body with the dark slide inserted, it will also allow you to remove the back with the dark slide removed. It also may not have a double exposure interlock, not sure on that one.

The Pro-S and Pro-SD also have fiber optic indicators in the finder that show you the area of the finder to use when the back is rotated for landscape orientation, these indicators disappear and lines on the focusing screen are used when the back is rotated to portrait orientation. Other than the normal things like checking shutter speeds, bellows for light leaks, and light seals I can't think of anything really specific to the RB to look for. I shot with a Pro-S using Pro-SD backs as my only camera with a 50mm and 90mm for about a year and a half, I'm now using a Rolleiflex Automat for MF but mainly shoot 4x5. The 90mm will close focus to around 7", the 50mm to about 1.5".

The 90mm with both extension tubes will have a greater magnification than the 50mm though. They are great cameras and if another nice one came up for a good price I'd probably buy another, even though they're a little heavy and bulky they are hand holdable and 95% of my RB shooting was done handheld with shutter speeds down to 1/30 sec.

PaulWA · Apr 7, 2016

Thanks chaps, sounds like the pro s and pro sd are more idiot proof - perfect!

I've heard that some cameras can lock the lens on if you try to remove it before (or after?) cocking the shutter or something. Are there any hard and fast rules to follow when using the Rb67? They seem fairly affordable, on ebay, although I'm wary having been stung a few times.

That said, fifty quid just got me a sekonic digipro x-1 and it's in perfect nick so it's not all bad...

Kyle M. · Apr 7, 2016

To attach or remove the lens on an RB67 both the body and lens need to be cocked. Lenses should be stored with the shutters released, the lenses for the RB are easy to cock and fire without any tools. Twisting the two pins marked with the yellow arrows counter clockwise until they are lined up with the red/green dots will cock the shutter. Pressing the release button marked with the red arrow while twisting the pins clockwise until they stop will release the shutter. Once or twice I accidentally tried to remove the lens from the body when both were released and was unable to do so but nothing locked up. I don't know if I ever tried to mount a cocked lens to a uncocked body or vice versa. I have heard that it is possible for the two to become locked together though. And I recall reading something about peeling back the leatherette on the front standard and using a paper clip or similar object to release something.

Wayne · Apr 7, 2016

PaulWA said:
Thanks chaps, sounds like the pro s and pro sd are more idiot proof - perfect!

I've heard that some cameras can lock the lens on if you try to remove it before (or after?) cocking the shutter or something. Are there any hard and fast rules to follow when using the Rb67? They seem fairly affordable, on ebay, although I'm wary having been stung a few times.

That said, fifty quid just got me a sekonic digipro x-1 and it's in perfect nick so it's not all bad...

I have an RB Pro, the original, and (until 2 weeks ago) I only had RB-Pro backs and Pre-C (single coated) lenses. In 2-3 years I haven't once double exposed a frame or with one exception done anything that the more idiot proof Pro-S and SD cameras are supposed to help prevent. I did have to change the seals on my camera and older backs though. The one exception is I have sometimes forgotten if the back is in portrait or landscape mode because the focusing screen on a Pro doesn't tip you off and apparently the Pro-S and later ones do.

I mention this not to argue that I'm not an idiot (there is ample evidence suggesting otherwise), but only to say the older styles can be perfectly functional too. That said I am slowly upgrading to SD backs, C lenses and eventually an SD body simply so I don't have to mess with foam seals. But if you are on a budget and find clean older gear don't pass it up as a chance to get into RBs. You can always upgrade piece by piece like I'm doing.

Trail Images · Apr 7, 2016

I use a RB67 ProSD a lot. It is my favorite unit to date. The ProSD is the later unit with the larger front opening to accommodate the later 75mm Shit/Tilt lens and the 500mm lens.
As a side note: it is highly recommended to use a lens "spacer" sleeve or collar when mounting the earlier non L lenses on the SD body. They have a smaller neck that was a normal tight fit on the Pro & ProS. Just a thought if you do find a ProSD unit. You can use one sleeve and move it between lenses. Over the years I bought enough sleeves to keep one on each lens. Less fussing in the field.

tedr1 · Apr 7, 2016

These are terrific cameras, I have owned the ProS for twenty years, but compared to a TLR these are much bulkier, heavier, and because of the mirror mechanism also noisier. Get the more recent models with the interlocks. Manuals are available free online. The bellows permits close focusing and there are extension tubes if you want to get REALLY close. The foam light seals on the rotating back and the film holder on many are gone, turned to mush, they may have to be replaced. These cameras are available in the USA crazy cheap, KEH is a good source, also ebay.com and the classified sections of APUG and largeformatphotography.

Ashfaque · Apr 7, 2016

Paul: Since you're in UK, check out Ian's site. http://ianbfoto.com/about.php

IIRC, I saw a Pro SD package there few weeks ago at a very reasonable price. He is an expert on Mamiya too. His prices are a bit higher compared to the ones from Japan (mainly due to annoying VAT and import taxes). But it's worth it. (Disclaimer: no connection with the seller)

Also, for a nice summary of the RB67 system, check http://rb67.helluin.org/

Bests,

Ashfaque

paul ron · Apr 7, 2016

the main and most serious thing to look for with any RB series camera is the bellows! put a bright light inside n check it in a darkend room for light leaks. everything else can easily be fixed. seals are a diy project.

as for lenses... they are all good glass. a few may be very slightly better but the difference isnt much to worry about other than fungus n separation.

check the lenes for shutter operation. try all speeds as you look through to be sure they are actually opening.

put a roll of backing paper to try the backs to be sure they advance nicely. there are no spacing issues to be aware of because of how tge mechanisms work. it either works or it doesnt.

good luck

Theo Sulphate · Apr 7, 2016

Lots of good advice here already.

If you choose either Pro SD or Pro S, keep in mind that you'll want the corresponding Pro SD or Pro S backs (they are marked).

Be sure to read the instruction manual completely.

These are great cameras with great lenses and they're a bargain today. I have two Pro S's and have made plenty of sharp handheld shots with them.

Trail Images · Apr 7, 2016

paul ron said:
the main and most serious thing to look for with any RB series camera is the bellows!

+1.......AGREED.

MattKing · Apr 7, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
If you choose either Pro SD or Pro S, keep in mind that you'll want the corresponding Pro SD or Pro S backs (they are marked).

They are actually interchangeable - i.e. you can use either version, on either version of the cameras.

You need to check as well that the rotating adapter is also either a Pro S or Pro SD version. In most cases it will be matched to the camera version, but an older "Pro" version will both fit and seem to operate correctly, until you check the vertical frame lines and interlocks.

There is at least one other adapter that won't work with any of the standard backs. It is most commonly found with the polaroid back.

wombat2go · Apr 7, 2016

Hi Paul,
In 2014~15 I restored an old RB67 Pro S body,
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

.. acquired the Mamiya Sekor C 1:4.5 50mm and 1:3.8 90mm.
I also purchased a prism which, although too heavy, I think adds to the success in using the camera.
The whole kit is about 6 kilogram, many would say, too heavy for hand held use. However I have taken it to Australia and just returned from a trip to Grand Canyon with it. I do not use a tripod.
https://app.box.com/s/0ty5dvtgtj1u49upiqs4q2o204i3mp47

I am processing C41 here, so far Ektar, Portra and Fuji 160ns. My scanner is a PrimeFilm 120.

I am really pleased with the results I am getting, although still a lot to learn here.
Here are some from the old RB67, over past year:

https://app.box.com/s/muqojmp4q6vsm4zuiw0le7y69ad1dhe9
https://app.box.com/s/75d6e107gfday8k09t2rk55bqowr0fg1
https://app.box.com/s/gd5ojj0ivddc7cqxqc30xoxhx1yg22v9
https://app.box.com/s/gv60dafmsl707e9pe2hgzxnrc7ibfc3f

This one into the sun with the 90mm
https://app.box.com/s/w91a0muan704b29offcglzmdrh22d3lu

This one is a wide aperture close up with the 50mm
https://app.box.com/s/0jelizbpvbx82ezvub727wj0dmsjskga

I wish you well with your new camera, what ever it is.

tedr1 · Apr 7, 2016

instructions for replacement seals for the RB67 seem to be available here http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/sealreplacement.html , listed as RB67, I have not used this company but I downloaded the RB67 instructions and they seem thorough.

A seal kit is being offered on ebay.com by a seller in Japan.

PaulWA · Apr 8, 2016

Ashfaque said:
Paul: Since you're in UK, check out Ian's site. http://ianbfoto.com/about.php

IIRC, I saw a Pro SD package there few weeks ago at a very reasonable price. He is an expert on Mamiya too. His prices are a bit higher compared to the ones from Japan (mainly due to annoying VAT and import taxes). But it's worth it. (Disclaimer: no connection with the seller)

Also, for a nice summary of the RB67 system, check http://rb67.helluin.org/

Bests,

Ashfaque

Ooo he services everything before sale, that's useful. I'll contact and ask if he warranties products, too. Many thanks!

MattKing said:
They are actually interchangeable - i.e. you can use either version, on either version of the cameras.

You need to check as well that the rotating adapter is also either a Pro S or Pro SD version. In most cases it will be matched to the camera version, but an older "Pro" version will both fit and seem to operate correctly, until you check the vertical frame lines and interlocks.

There is at least one other adapter that won't work with any of the standard backs. It is most commonly found with the polaroid back.

If I bought, say, a Pro S and it had a Pro SD back, what functionality can I expect/not expect? I'll bear that all in mind - as it's cheap compared to a new Sony A7Rii, I can quite easily justify spending a few hundred on a camera that, hopefully, won't be obsolete in 5, 10 or 20 years!

AlanC · Apr 8, 2016

Paul, I don't know if you have handled an RB 67 but if you haven't you should bear in mind that focussing is by bellows. There is no helical focussing on the lens mount, so there is no depth of field scale - that can be set to the hyperfocal distance. This is no problem if you are photographing "things". You simply focus on the subject of your photograph. But if you are photographing landscapes and want the maximum depth of field, then things get more tricky. You can overcome this, as you would have to if you were using a typical 5 x 4 camera. But it might be worth bearing in mind.

Alan

Kyle M. · Apr 8, 2016

Actually there is a chart/graph on the side of the bellows that gives you the distance you are focused at with each lens along with bellows compensation factor. There is also a depth of field scale on a rotating ring on the front of the lens that you can put the number from the chart into and get pretty darn close on your depth of field. In my experience it has been plenty accurate.

AlanC · Apr 8, 2016

Kyle, it may be "plenty accurate" but is hard to read and fiddly to do.
And the rotating ring doesn't set the depth of field. It only tells you what it will be if you have correctly negotiated the hard-to -read chart on the side of the camera. But I agree, it can be done....

Alan

PaulWA · Apr 8, 2016

It sounds more fiddly but I'm primarily hoping to get it outside for landscape and such, and for abstract work indoors and outdoors.

I suspect it will be quite a learning experience, thanks for the warning. My main concern now is actually sheer size and weight - if in a backpack alongside tripod, water bottle, filters and light meter, how will I manage?

6x4.5 doesn't interest me much, being used to 6x6. I am quite confident I'll manage, but perhaps not climbing mountains so much as traversing fields and cities...

paul ron · Apr 8, 2016

wombat2go said:
Hi Paul,
In 2014~15 I restored an old RB67 Pro S body,
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

.. acquired the Mamiya Sekor C 1:4.5 50mm and 1:3.8 90mm.
I also purchased a prism which, although too heavy, I think adds to the success in using the camera.
The whole kit is about 6 kilogram, many would say, too heavy for hand held use. However I have taken it to Australia and just returned from a trip to Grand Canyon with it. I do not use a tripod.
https://app.box.com/s/0ty5dvtgtj1u49upiqs4q2o204i3mp47

I am processing C41 here, so far Ektar, Portra and Fuji 160ns. My scanner is a PrimeFilm 120.

I am really pleased with the results I am getting, although still a lot to learn here.
Here are some from the old RB67, over past year:

https://app.box.com/s/muqojmp4q6vsm4zuiw0le7y69ad1dhe9
https://app.box.com/s/75d6e107gfday8k09t2rk55bqowr0fg1
https://app.box.com/s/gd5ojj0ivddc7cqxqc30xoxhx1yg22v9
https://app.box.com/s/gv60dafmsl707e9pe2hgzxnrc7ibfc3f

This one into the sun with the 90mm
https://app.box.com/s/w91a0muan704b29offcglzmdrh22d3lu

This one is a wide aperture close up with the 50mm
https://app.box.com/s/0jelizbpvbx82ezvub727wj0dmsjskga

I wish you well with your new camera, what ever it is.

the best alternative is buying a parts body for a replacement bellows. and if the holes dont align, drill new ones.

it takes a bit of getting use to the weight n handeling of an rb but with a bit of practice, hand held really isnt a problem. you tend to develope rb67 muscles very quickly.

paul ron · Apr 8, 2016

AlanC said:
Paul, I don't know if you have handled an RB 67 but if you haven't you should bear in mind that focussing is by bellows. There is no helical focussing on the lens mount, so there is no depth of field scale - that can be set to the hyperfocal distance. This is no problem if you are photographing "things". You simply focus on the subject of your photograph. But if you are photographing landscapes and want the maximum depth of field, then things get more tricky. You can overcome this, as you would have to if you were using a typical 5 x 4 camera. But it might be worth bearing in mind.

Alan

the lenses have a preview switch to stop it down in the vf you can use for dof. the scales are farely good but do make a clumsey work flow.

paul ron · Apr 8, 2016

PaulWA said:
It sounds more fiddly but I'm primarily hoping to get it outside for landscape and such, and for abstract work indoors and outdoors.

I suspect it will be quite a learning experience, thanks for the warning. My main concern now is actually sheer size and weight - if in a backpack alongside tripod, water bottle, filters and light meter, how will I manage?

6x4.5 doesn't interest me much, being used to 6x6. I am quite confident I'll manage, but perhaps not climbing mountains so much as traversing fields and cities...

it will be bulky n a bit heavy especially with a prism mounted on it... but its very doable.

perhaps looking for a rangefinder camera may be a better option for you to investigate?

MattKing · Apr 8, 2016

PaulWA said:
If I bought, say, a Pro S and it had a Pro SD back, what functionality can I expect/not expect? I'll bear that all in mind - as it's cheap compared to a new Sony A7Rii, I can quite easily justify spending a few hundred on a camera that, hopefully, won't be obsolete in 5, 10 or 20 years!

You will get the same basic functionality either way. There are some refinements like light traps rather than foam in the SD backs.

Here is a link to the Resnitsky compatibility chart: http://www.reznitsky.info/Mamiya/Comchart.htm

Mamiya RB67 - anything to look for?

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