Mamiya Rb 67, 4 out of 10 shots were not exposed at all

Valentins_Visuals

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Hello everyone,

I shot my first roll on the Mamiya rb67 two weeks ago, got the film developed and the scans back a couple of days ago. I only got six files and thought there was a scanning problem with the lab or something of that kind. Called the lab yesterday, they checked the negatives and told me that the four missing files were just completely blank negatives that were not exposed at all... The first 5 shots I took were okay, then 4 went missing and the last was exposed again...

My initial reaction was that maybe some of the shutter speed or aperture settings would not function properly or that there is a problem with the curtain? I will shoot another roll soon and write down all of the settings that I use so that I can collect data to look for possible sources.

Just wanted to collect some thoughts from you guys! Have you had similar problems or any ideas what the origin might be?

All the best and take good care everyone,
Valentin
 

Neil Grant

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Before using another roll of film you should try to ascertain that the camera is working (reasonably) correctly. Remove the back, fire and cock the camera. Observe the film plane. Do you see light? Maybe the shutter isn't always tripping. Which model of RB 67? Is it the original version?
 

Lachlan Young

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The lens/ body probably needs a service - I've seen RB lenses get a bit sticky and slow to operate with consequent missed shots. There's quite a few mechanical linkages that need to operate smoothly for an RB to successfully expose film and if any run slow or don't travel their full distance, that's where problems tend to emanate from.
 
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Valentins_Visuals

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Thanks for the suggestions so far! I have the RB67 Professional S. Maybe it was caused by one of the two lenses, but Lachlan, could you explain why slow lenses can cause missing shots?

With the Mamiya I got about 30 rolls of expired film, so I'm just going to load some Ilford and note down all the settings and lenses I am shooting with. If the problem keeps occurring, I will probably give it into service.
 

Donald Qualls

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Which RB67 do you have? Pro, ProS or ProSD? What model back did you use? The Pro body doesn't have a dark slide interlock -- meaning you can shoot without removing the dark slide. Very easy to do if you're new to the camera. It's also possible with both Pro and ProS (at least, don't have experience with ProSD) to advance without having exposed. Also, if the T collar on the shutter (on the lens) is set, you can fire the body but the shutter won't open.
 

Trail Images

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Any lost images for me over the years with my Pro-ProS-ProSD was always a lens issue. They just stick and will not open the blades. CLA by a good repair shop immediately resolved the issue(s).
By testing the lens on or off the camera will usually verify the slow or sluggish workings of the lens......best of luck.
 
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Valentins_Visuals

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Thanks for the quick replies guys!

To respond to Donald: I use the RB67 ProS. The back is also a ProS back. I always removed the dark slide for each shot and made sure that I advanced the film after exposing. When you mentioned the "T" collar, do you mean the shutter speed setting that comes after 1?

Since Trail Images also points towards the lense, then this might be the issue here... I just took some pictures with both lenses on the camera and took some notes which I used for which shots. I'll get the roll developed asap to see if I can find something out.
 

Donald Qualls

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There's a cable release socket on the shutter, with a collar around it -- it can be lifted and turned to the put the lens into mirror prefire mode; in that mode, firing the body will only cause the lens to close, but not then fire the timed exposure, which must be done with a cable release (or paper clip etc.) in the socket on the shutter. If that gets set, you won't be able to easily tell the lens isn't exposing your film, but you'll get blank frames none the less.

I tend to think of it as related to T exposure, because I don't use prefire much except when making exposures longer than half a second.
 
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Valentins_Visuals

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Hey Donald,

It was actually the case that my 90mm lens had the socket moved to "mirror up" and I do know that at least two of the missing 4 photos were shot on this lens. So thank you so much! If I am ever around North Carolina, beers are on me haha. Or some rolls of film.

Cheers,
Valentin
 

MattKing

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Welcome to Photrio.
It does sound like your problem originates from the pre-fire/mirror lockup setting on the lens.
For clarity in future discussions, I would point out that with the RB-67, there is no "shutter" in the camera. Each individual lens incorporates a shutter as well. So if you are having problems with blank frames or inconsistent shutter speeds, it is important to narrow down which lens is involved.
 
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Valentins_Visuals

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Hey Matt,

Thanks for that comment! I did not know this about the RB-67. I got it for an absolute steal from this old man and was just dying to try it out. I haven't gotten to read the manual yet, so I my knowledge on its functions is still pretty limited.

All the best,
Valentin
 

Donald Qualls

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I'm happy to tell you you've stumbled into (IMO) the most versatile medium format camera of them all. You can shoot three 120 formats (kinda four -- 6x8 is on the border of reality, but I have 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x7 on mine), plus kludge in 35mm (67 mm sprocket panoramic), go from a super-wide 37 mm fisheye to a nice 5.5x tele (500 mm), there are waist, eye level, and chimney finders (the latter two available with meters, if new enough). I love mine. Just make sure you have a good strap (with the proprietary end connectors), look for a left side handle, and get a good sturdy tripod.
 

Lachlan Young

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Valentins_Visuals said:
could you explain why slow lenses can cause missing shots
Click to expand...

From what I recall from seeing a similar issue on a Pro S, when you press the shutter release, the body actuates a lever which closes down the lens shutter, then another that trips the shutter itself - if some parts are slightly sticky or slow it can cause a situation where it shuts the lens but doesn't quite seem to fire the shutter - yet the body thinks you have fired it, and when you re-cock the shutter, it all resets to what seems to be normal, open shutter for focus etc.
 

Donald Qualls

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in other words, "slow" as in mechanically in need of service, rather than "slow" as in numerically high f-stop.
 

M Carter

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Keep in mind that any RB shutter will eventually seize up, either get very slow or be stuck closed. The RB manual states that regular lens service is part of owning an RB, and it gives a number of x-rolls of film. But we're talking decades-old lenses, too. The RB mirror is so loud, yet the shutter itself makes a very quiet little "snick" sound, so the camera will sound fine when the lens is going south.

At the very least, test your lens before every shoot - pop the revolving adapter off the camera (to bypass the safeties), set the lens wide open, and fire it at different speeds while looking through the back with the lens cap off. (I find this test better than using the pins with the lens off-camera, it can be hard to make the shutter really "snap" that way). The good news is that RB shutters are really robust little bastards, and a proper cleaning and lube (Disassembly, proper lubes in proper places in proper amounts, not q-tips and lighter fluid) should give more years/decades of service.
 

Donald Qualls

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M Carter said:
The good news is that RB shutters are really robust little bastards, and a proper cleaning and lube (Disassembly, proper lubes in proper places in proper amounts, not q-tips and lighter fluid) should give more years/decades of service.
Click to expand...

A consequence of being made for the professional studio market, wherein it wasn't unusual to run through a dozen rolls of 220 in a day's shoot -- and do it again every working day.
 

chassis

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@Valentins_Visuals Did you find a solution? I don't see where anyone has suggested a slow mirror. This is relatively common RB67 phenomenon at advanced age. If you have a roll of film with good images, and some blank frames, the mirror is for sure a candidate.

Do you have the RB67 repair manual? Not sure where to find it these days. I tried to upload it but this site says the file is too big.

You can investigate both lenses and mirror individually. Exercise the camera dozens of times with the film back removed, looking through the body from the rear, through the lens. Use a slow-ish shutter speed so that you can affirmatively see the mirror lifting and the shutter opening and closing. Please post your results.
 

removed account4

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hi Valentin
you might consider taking your camera and lenses&c to your local repair shop and have a healthy Clean Lubricate Adjust done
to make sure everything is in tip-top shape. sometimes old cameras need a little TLC ... its like changing the oil in a car, you wouldn't drive 1,000,000km without an oil change would you ?
also --- any lab that doesn't give back the negatives seems kind of strange, that's the point of shooting film is to have a physical negative. local mail order lab here (FUJILABS ) won't give back film
so I stopped using them 10 years ago..

have fun!
John
 

Autonerd

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Valentins_Visuals said:
It was actually the case that my 90mm lens had the socket moved to "mirror up" and I do know that at least two of the missing 4 photos were shot on this lens.
Click to expand...

Glad you got the problem figured out.

One post-script: When you get your film developed, get those negatives back. There is so much you can do with them -- better scans, wet prints, etc., Plus it's nice to have the originals. Negatives are a lot more durable than hard drives.

Aaron
 
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