MAMIYA Press - Rangefinder adjustment

[nawmatholwyd]

I'm just getting to grips with a Mamiya Press Super 23. I have a Ground Glass for tripod shots, but have been thinking of using it hand held. However, I find that when trying to focus on distant objects , the "ghost image" never quite gets there. Does anyone know how difficult/ expensive this is to fix?

Thanks.

 

[Wayne Frederick]

Aha, another Mamiya Press user! There is some old information online-try this link: Dead Link Removed (about 1/4 way down page, a post about rangefinder adjustment) There may be other info online also. I have two Mamiya Press cameras, a Super 23 and a standard, and the rangefinders in both are slightly "off". I have found in actual practice that this makes no difference in the sharpness of my photos, since I usually stop down and this negates the effect of my slightly inaccurate rangefinder.

 

[Paul Howell]

You can 1 of 2 problems, the rangefinder itself needs to adjusted or the cam on the lens may need to be adjusted. I have a Universal with 3 lens, my 150 needs to adjusted, the 65 and 100 are ok. Unless you have workout part it is not too expensive to have either the camera or the lens adjusted .if you have access to a camera repair tech who has a shop manual.

 

[Paul Howell]

I just a quick correction, the 100 and 65 have fixed cams, the 150 has a spring and screw for adjustment. So if your 100 or 90 is out of alinement then it must be the rangefinder in the body.

 

[kittyhawk88]

To Adjust the Rangefinder on a Mamiya Super 23

Locate the 2 screws on the front bezel. One on top of S and the other on top of the A.
Unscrew the 2 screws and lift the bezel from the body upwards.
The bezel is keyed to the top of the camera.

Once the bezel is off, there is a screw recessed in the middle of the housing. You need to unscrew this screw.
Now remove the 2 screw from the side and one in the back.

The rangefinder 100 150 250 selector screw (shiny and chromed) is the last screw off.
The rangefinder housing now lifts off.

Proceed to give the mirrors etc at good dusting.
You will need to remove 1 screw to access the lens box.
I gave the actual lenses a good clean but left the partially silvered split mirrors alone since i don't know if i will damage it.

The alignment procedure is really quite simple now that you have clean optics.
Immediately behind the "Made" Made in Japan housing is a small adjustment screw.

Place the camera on a tripod and focus the lens at 3 Meters. Lens barallel will now be at 3 Meters. Target to film plane is at 3 meters.
Either screw in the adjustment screw or out to obtain a perfect image in the rangefinder.
Check the inifinity next with at object at 300Meters .

Repeat above till both 3 meters and infinity is sweet.
If you have the ground glass focusing screen. You can check that they all match up.

Reassemble and go shoot a roll to test.

Shoud be sweet! The optics are exceptional. At least when all is in focus and shots for mine on a tripod at F5.6 onwards are something to behold.

Enjoy your Mamiya "Godzilla".

Kittyhawk

 

[Curtis Miller]

I'm having a problem with a Super 23 that I just bought. I shot a roll of film to find that none of the pictures were even remotely in focus. My first thought was that it might need the rangefinder adjusted. That's how I found this thread. Today, I put a ground glass on the film plane (I'm waiting for an official ground glass attachment to arrive) and I found that the lens will not focus anywhere near the right minimum distance. When I am focused all the way in on a subject at about 1 meter, the image is very blurry. The subject is in focus at about 8 feet when at minimum focus on the barrel. It reaches infinity at about 4.5 feet on the lens barrel. I moved the bellows out about 1/4" and it focuses about as it should.

This doesn't sound like a rangefinder issue to me as I'm not using the rangefinder, just focusing on a ground glass. I can't see what could be adjusted on the lens, but maybe someone can enlighten me. Is there a way that the lens could be adjusted to change the film plane offset? Could it be put together incorrectly? Could there be something amiss at the back of the camera causing the film plane to be off? The bellows were locked all the way down tight and I have a simple 6 x 7 back on it. I also shot with a 6 x 9 back with the same results.

 

[villagephotog]

This doesn't sound like a rangefinder issue to me as I'm not using the rangefinder, just focusing on a ground glass.

First, if you just bought it, and it's returnable, then that's probably the fiscally most sound decision. A problem like this can eat up a ton of your time and still be uneconomical to solve. That said:

You're right that it's not your rangefinder, and it's pretty unlikely that there's anything wrong with the camera body. In order for the camera body to be the issue, the flange black, a.k.a. flange focal distance (i.e. the distance from the lens flange to the film plane), would have to be incorrect. That is possible, but not terribly likely, IMO. You could check this by researching the flange focal distance for the Mamiya Press cameras, then measuring yours, but you'd need good calipers, I think, in order to get useful information. I loosely measured the flange distance on my Mamiya Press Universal once at 53mm, but I did not use calipers, so don't take that as the correct figure.

So that leaves the lens. There is no user adjustment for this, but it is entirely possible for the lens to become misadjusted in this way with improper repair or mistreatment. Depending on how the misadjustment happened, it might be relatively easy to fix. I've partially disassembled two Mamiya Press lenses; one (the 150mm) was fairly easy to get completely apart, including individual lens elements, and the other (the 50mm) was not. I was able to put together a quite sharp 150mm lens with an accurate shutter out of two junkers (for a total of $30). My 50mm, however, is defying me at every turn, and I'll probably have to bite the bullet and pay a professional to fix it.

I'm guessing you have a 100mm (i.e. normal) lens? I haven't tried to dig into that one, so have no idea how easy or hard it would be to check if the focus barrel/helicoid is assembled correctly, or whether a lens element is installed backwards (not uncommon) or something like that. If there's a repair shop near you, it's probably worth asking them. But it's very likely that it would be cheaper to just buy another lens. Again, that makes sense only if you can't return the camera for a refund.

 

[Curtis Miller]

I got help from another user in another post I made. The lens is the 100mm 3.5. It's collapsible and I did not know it. I expanded the lens and everything checks out. Sorry to waste your time.

 

[villagephotog]

I got help from another user in another post I made. The lens is the 100mm 3.5. It's collapsible and I did not know it.

Ah, I didn't even think of that! I have the same lens and once or twice I've almost forgotten to extend it before taking pictures. I'm sure I will someday. I can add that to all my shots with the dark slide in and accidental double exposures.

Glad to hear it was a simple thing.

 

[KayVisions]

Hello Guys,
Any1 knows someone who can repair Mamya Press 23 Super in New York City area or New York State,
Or at least is there any video tutorial how to adjust the rangefinder, it doesn’t works good.

thank you.

 

[villagephotog]

Hello Guys,
Any1 knows someone who can repair Mamya Press 23 Super in New York City area or New York State,
Or at least is there any video tutorial how to adjust the rangefinder, it doesn’t works good.

thank you.

A place in Manhattan on W. 29th St. called Panorama Camera Center adjusted the rangefinder on my Mamiya Press Universal, and did an excellent job. And a couple of people I know have had other repairs done there that they were happy with.

I also had an unsatisfactory experience with them on a repair of a misaligned lens; they said they could do the job, and they charged me $100 for it, but their repair made only a small improvement. My intention is to try somebody else the next time I need a repair. But again, I know people who have been happy with their work, and they are well-known in the New York City film shooting community.

It's a husband and wife team, I believe, and the repairman, Fema, is getting on in years. Things happen at a slow-ish pace there. They are only open 3 days a week, and they are hard to find: hidden on the 3rd floor of a building on W. 29th St. and sharing space with a tailor shop, if memory serves. Definitely, call them before going in. Here's their location and phone # info:

https://www.yelp.com/biz/panorama-camera-center-new-york

As for doing it yourself, you might be able to find a repair manual somewhere that details the procedure. Check the film camera manual archive at https://www.butkus.org/chinon/index.html

I have a repair manual for my Universal, and it shows how to do it, but it assumes that you have a collimator (an optical device used by repair shops). I could do it without a collimator, and I might try when the need arises, but it involves some (relatively small) workarounds and compromises to do it without the proper equipment.

 

[Mamiya_Repair]

Reading the reply from several years ago regarding rangefinder adjustment on the Universal, it may be a bit confusing. There are actually two adjusting screws for adjusting the rangefinder horizontal image. One screw is for infinity and the other is for 1 meter. Vertical adjustment is with a separate screw. I always remove the complete rangefinder assembly when doing an adjustment because that allows access to the rangefinder arm adjustment but would not recommend doing this without the Mamiya factory jig. Certainly get the repair manual and this will all make sense. A collimator is not used for rangefinder adjustment but is used to test and adjust lens focus.

 

[villagephotog]

A collimator is not used for rangefinder adjustment but is used to test and adjust lens focus.

I probably misunderstood my manual, but it seemed logical to me: I thought it was indicating that the adjustment for the rangefinder tracking at infinity ("Infinity Tube Tracking Test") was done using a collimator. My understanding was that this provided a target located at optical infinity, so that the rangefinder coincidence could be compared with the image on a ground glass at the film plane.

Not having a collimator, my workaround when checking focus systems at infinity is to go outside and use a far distant object as my target, but I'd be very happy to learn if this is not necessary, or there's a better way. (Sometimes I just don't try to test them at infinity, but simply check them against a target on a far wall inside my apartment or across the street, figuring that's close enough for government work.)

For near distance tracking, on the other hand, my manual describes a procedure using an "aiming and framing" target placed (depending on the lens) about 1 to 2 meters from the camera; no collimator necessary for that test, obviously.

Thanks for any insights, Bill.

(Also, I might want to send a lens or two to you for repair, so I'll PM you separately.)

 

[Mamiya_Repair]

First thing to do when adjusting the rangefinder is check infinity focus at the film plane with a lens installed (on the Universal, this should be the 100mm f/3.5). You can do this by using a collimator or, as you have been doing, using an infinity object outside. Once infinity is confirmed, then you can proceed to rangefinder adjustment using a calibrated target inside or outside with an infinity object. The rangefinder should also be adjusted for 1 meter with a suitable target. On the Mamiya Universal there are other rangefinder and lens adjustments that I always check and adjust when a camera comes into the shop for repair but that's beyond the scope of what tools an individual will have available so the above procedure will be close enough for most any work. I do get paid for camera service so I need to return the camera/lens as close to factory specs as possible.

 

[hashtagquack]

Can anyone clarify the comment about the bezel being keyed to the top of the camera? When removing the topplate of my universal, i removed the screws on the side and that of the frame selector however was unable to remove the topplate completely as it seems like something was attached under the accessory shoe that prevented its removal. I was still able to just reach the adjustment screws but hoping for a more accessible method in future

 

[Mamiya_Repair]

There are four screws under the accessory shoe spring plate that attach to a "holder plate" under the top cover so these will need to be removed. Or you can remove the front viewfinder frame/mask and then remove the one screw that attaches to the "holder plate". Either way works.

 

[hashtagquack]

There are four screws under the accessory shoe spring plate that attach to a "holder plate" under the top cover so these will need to be removed. Or you can remove the front viewfinder frame/mask and then remove the one screw that attaches to the "holder plate". Either way works.

Cheers Bill! Couldnt shift the accessory shoe screws last time so probably time for some decent screwdrivers! Thank you for your expertise

 

[halfaman]

I sent some years ago a Super 23 with a set of three lenses (100 mm f/2.8, 75 mm f/5.6 and 50 mm f/6.3) to a shop to adjust the rangefinder. The technician told me it was an unexpected difficult and painful job. They need several tries to adjust everything and they have to build an specific set to collimate everything. Even all that 100 mm focus is slightly off (just a couple of miilimeters in the focusing ring).

 

[hashtagquack]

I sent some years ago a Super 23 with a set of three lenses (100 mm f/2.8, 75 mm f/5.6 and 50 mm f/6.3) to a shop to adjust the rangefinder. The technician told me it was an unexpected difficult and painful job. They need several tries to adjust everything and they have to build an specific set to collimate everything. Even all that 100 mm focus is slightly off (just a couple of miilimeters in the focusing ring).

I think this would be easier if he had the 100mm f3.5 to hand, using that to set the rangefinder and then adjusting the cams on each of the other lenses as needed. I cant remember for sure but I think the 100mm f3.5 has a fixed cam compared to the adjustable cams in the other lenses so it would make sense to use that for the body adjustment.

 

[Mamiya_Repair]

Just to clarify: The 127mm, 150mm, and 100mm f/2.8 all have rangefinder adjustments made by a screw. The other lenses have rangefinder adjustments made by adding shims or polishing the rangefinder contact surface. Before a rangefinder can be properly adjusted on a camera, I check each lens for linear momentum using an infinity zero gauge. Of course, you can get close enough just using a 100mm f/3.5 that is known to be good. But if using the lenses wide open, it pays to get as close an adjustment as possible.