Mamiya m645 “normal lens”. 80mm 2.8 or 110mm 2.8?

harlequin · Jun 17, 2020

Hello Team,

Just had dinner with bunch of Mamiya rb67 users, who swear by the 90mm normal lens and the other half of the group sing the praises of the 127mm normal lens. We recently obtained a m645j body with prism and 120 insert very clean kit but no lens.

A) I know this came with an 80mm c lens but I could easily make a case for the 110mm....
Will be shooting bw generally.

What say you?
They are priced pretty close on the used market, any sample images always appreciated!

Be Safe!

Harlequin

MattKing · Jun 17, 2020

You seem to be mixing considerations of two incompatible systems, with two different aspect ratios.
Which is fine, but confusing!
I prefer a 55mm and 110mm tandem for my 645 Pro, but that is mainly because the 55mm is roughly equivalent to the field of view I prefer as a "standard" in my 135, 6x4.5 and (until recently) 6x7 systems.
I do have an 80mm f/4 macro for the 645 Pro, but that is used more frequently when I expect to need its close focusing capabilities.
By the way, when you consider people advocating for the 127mm lens for the RB67, it is important to remember that
1) as a short telephoto, it is very well suited to environmental portraiture - something that RB67 users often do; and
2) it is the smallest and lightest of all the RB67 lenses.

wiltw · Jun 17, 2020

Consider this:

135 frame is 24mm x 36mm
645 frame is (about) 43 mm x 56mm
6x7 frame is (about) 56mm x 69mm (RB67)
So to nullify the different aspect ratios of the three formats (above), let us work FL within the context of the VERTICAL frame dimension so that all three have the same vertical Angle of View...
135 is common thought to have a 'normal' lens of 50mm, which is about 2.1x frame height; but we have seen cameras with 45, 50, 52, 55, and even 58mm all delivered by manufacturers as 'normal' for 135 format! Some have even adopted 35mm FL as their 'normal' for photojournalism...1.46x
applying 2.1x to 43mm 645 frame, we get 'normal' of about 89mm; appying 1.46x we get 63mm...the industry settled on 75mm as 'normal' (1.75x) for 645 cameras like Bronica and Pentax, 80mm is 'normal' (1.43x) on 6x6 like Hassy.
applying 2.1x to 6x7, we get 'normal' of about 117mm; using 1.46x we get 82mm, and the industry settled on 90mm 'normal'

For reference, 4x5 format has a 93mm frame opening in film holders, and 150mm is considered the 'normal'...that is 1.61x the vertical frame dimension. IOW there is little commonality about what is 'normal' in terms of vertical Angle of View...it is all over the place.

Dan Fromm · Jun 18, 2020

With the exception of cinema formats and 35 mm still, derived from a cinema format, the normal focal length is conventionally defined as the the format's diagonal. 43 mm for 24x36, but, as I said, an exception. 70 mm for 645. 90 mm for 6x7.

OP, what you're asking is which focal length is the best "walking around" focal length for you. This is entirely a matter of personal preference, so only you can answer your question. FWIW, when I was shooting a lot of 35 mm still my preferred walking around focal length was 105 mm.

narsuitus · Jun 18, 2020

For me, I know that I prefer a normal lens to deliver a horizontal angle-of-view equal to 45 degrees.

For the 35mm format, that would be a lens between 40 and 45mm.

For the 645 format, that would be a lens between 65 and 70mm.

For me, the 80mm, 90mm, 110mm, and 127mm lenses would all be too telephoto.

However, since the 80mm is the closest to the 65 to 70mm range, I would choose the 80mm as my normal for a 645 camera.

Neil Grant · Jun 18, 2020

harlequin said:
Hello Team,

Just had dinner with bunch of Mamiya rb67 users, who swear by the 90mm normal lens and the other half of the group sing the praises of the 127mm normal lens. We recently obtained a m645j body with prism and 120 insert very clean kit but no lens.

A) I know this came with an 80mm c lens but I could easily make a case for the 110mm....
Will be shooting bw generally.

What say you?
They are priced pretty close on the used market, any sample images always appreciated!

Be Safe!

Harlequin

...80mm or 110mm: really depends on what you're shooting. The RB 67 users you encountered would be very familiar with the ease of close-focusing when using either the 90mm or 127mm. If macro or near-macro is of interest to you, then either the 80mm or 110mm for 645 will require use of the, notoriously fiddly extensions tubes. They really don't focus very close at all. In this case the 80mm f/4 macro C is handy general purpose lens - going down to half life-size, 'unaided'. It's a real whopper though!

johnha · Jun 18, 2020

narsuitus said:
For me, I know that I prefer a normal lens to deliver a horizontal angle-of-view equal to 45 degrees.
For the 35mm format, that would be a lens between 40 and 45mm.
For the 645 format, that would be a lens between 65 and 70mm.
For me, the 80mm, 90mm, 110mm, and 127mm lenses would all be too telephoto.
However, since the 80mm is the closest to the 65 to 70mm range, I would choose the 80mm as my normal for a 645 camera.

I'd agree with the above and the comment that an RB/RZ is (largely) a studio/portrait machine and with bellows focussing, it's easier to get closer to the subject than helical focussing may allow.

I'd prefer a 65mm for the Mamiya 645 as a single lens (they didn't make one), there was a 70mm leaf shutter lens, but my 'normal' is the 80/2.8, I couldn't imagine going longer unless I needed a 150 or so.

Alan Gales · Jun 18, 2020

Dan Fromm said:
OP, what you're asking is which focal length is the best "walking around" focal length for you. This is entirely a matter of personal preference, so only you can answer your question.

Exactly!

This is one of those which is better the Rolling Stones or the Beatles questions. I'm a Stones guy myself!

Mamiya m645 “normal lens”. 80mm 2.8 or 110mm 2.8?

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