Mamiya C330 TLR lens choice (?)

macvisual · Mar 30, 2014

Just about to pick up a mint condition Mamiya C330 Pro-S TLR which comes with a 80mm and 135mm lenses. I'll be looking for a wide angle lens for the C330, choice is either the 65mm or the 55mm lens. I'd appreciate if anyone could offer any knowledge/advice/experience to which of these two lenses may be best for wide angle shooting attached to the C330 please? Thanks in advance.

Regards;
Peter

benjiboy · Mar 30, 2014

I've used Mamiya C330F TLR's for about 30 years Peter and I suggest you consider the 55mm lens pair because the difference in focal length between the 80mm lenses and the 65mm ones is too small to make it a worthwhile purchase and even the 55mm lenses aren't mega wide. I have the 55mm lenses and the 80mm and never felt like I needed the 65mm ones. One point that occurs to me I would like to mention Peter are that the best and latest 55mm lenses are the ones with the blue dot on the cocking lever and they are probably multi coated but even so if you buy a 55mm lens I recommend you buy the hood http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mamiya-le...ns_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item3cdeff11ba they are expensive but the top of them tilts to prevent the sun bouncing into the viewing lens and to present a thinner profile of it on the viewing screen so as not to obscure the view.

Oren Grad · Mar 30, 2014

As always, it depends on what you'd like to photograph and on how you see.

As it happens, just within the last few weeks I've assembled a Mamiya C220 outfit with the 55, 65 and 80mm lenses. The first roll I took was with the 55; it felt awkwardly wide for me as a standard lens, though it will be useful in some situations. I guess that's not a big surprise, as I tend to see semi-wide and with most formats find myself settling on something near 7/8 of the format diagonal as my main lens. On my next outing with the camera I will likely put on the 65 and see how that goes.

Good luck, and enjoy!

EDIT: I'd second Ben's recommendation about getting the dedicated hood with the tilting top - there are separate versions for the 55 and the 65.

benjiboy · Mar 30, 2014

Oren Grad said:
As always, it depends on what you'd like to photograph and on how you see.

As it happens, just within the last few weeks I've assembled a Mamiya C220 outfit with the 55, 65 and 80mm lenses. The first roll I took was with the 55; it felt awkwardly wide for me as a standard lens, though it will be useful in some situations. I guess that's not a big surprise, as I tend to see semi-wide and with most formats find myself settling on something near 7/8 of the format diagonal as my main lens. On my next outing with the camera I will likely put on the 65 and see how that goes.

Good luck, and enjoy!

EDIT: I'd second Ben's recommendation about getting the dedicated hood with the tilting top - there are separate versions for the 55 and the 65.

The 55mm lens pair is the same angle of view as 32mm on a 35mm camera which isn't particularly wide, it isn't intended to be a standard lens the 80mm is, it's a wide angle lens.
I.M.O. buying a 55 and a 65mm lens pair if you have an 80 is a waste of money.

Oren Grad · Mar 30, 2014

benjiboy said:
The 55mm lens pair is the same angle of view as 32mm on a 35mm camera which isn't particularly wide, it isn't intended to be a standard lens the 80mm is, it's a wide angle lens.
I.M.O. buying a 55 and a 65mm lens pair if you have an 80 is a waste of money.

Going by the format diagonal, 55mm on 56x56mm corresponds to 30mm on 24x36mm. Some people see differently, and tend to key on the horizontal or vertical field of view; for the horizontal view, 55 on 56x56 corresponds to about 35 on 35mm, for the vertical, it corresponds to about 24 on 35mm

Anyway, for my purposes "standard" means "the focal length I am most comfortable using for the majority of my pictures". In 35mm that's something in the 35-40mm range; I rarely use anything longer than 50 or shorter than 24, but I have a dense set of focal lengths between those limits. I could tell a similar story with other formats I've used. I won't know for sure about the C220 until I've used it for a bit, but odds are that the 65 will end up as my standard lens, the 80 will be my long, and the 55 will be my wide.

There's no rule about spacing or choice of focal lengths that will be right for everyone.

chip j · Mar 30, 2014

If a 55 is like a 32mm in 35mm format, what is a 65 equal to? (I have both)

Oren Grad · Mar 30, 2014

chip j said:
If a 55 is like a 32mm in 35mm format, what is a 65 equal to? (I have both)

Going by the format diagonal and assuming the nominal formats of 56x56mm and 24x36mm, 55 corresponds to 30.0mm and 65 corresponds to 35.5mm. Don't take that last decimal place too seriously - different cameras have film gates that vary slightly in size, and most people crop off the border when they print, taking a bit of the image edge with it.

Sirius Glass · Mar 30, 2014

I owned a C330 with the 65mm, 80mm, and 250mm lenses. The 65mm lenses is too close to the 80mm lens and I always thought that the 55mm lens was a much better choice.

David Brown · Mar 30, 2014

I have both the 55 and the 65. If I could only have one, it would be the 55. The 65 IS very close in view to the 80 (or the 55, for that matter) but it does what it does.

MattKing · Mar 30, 2014

Just to differ a bit.

My 55mm was a special purpose accessory lens for me. I found it a bit slow, and moderately hard to focus. I was very happy with the results.

At one time I had 55mm, 65mm, 80mm and 135mm lenses (and two bodies).

I'm down to one body, a 65mm lens and a 135mm lens. The three together make for a surprisingly flexible and small kit.

I do, however, have 45mm and 55mm lenses for my Mamiya 645.

Loren Sattler · Mar 30, 2014

In my experience, the 65mm lens is sharper than the 55mm. Have other users found this to be true for them? My 65mm, 80mm and 135mm lenses are very good, but I rarely shoot with anything longer than the 80mm.

Oren Grad · Mar 30, 2014

MattKing said:
My 55mm was a special purpose accessory lens for me. I found it a bit slow, and moderately hard to focus.

FWIW, I'm finding that the rigid chimney finder with the flip-up 6x magnifier helps a lot with focusing the 55 on the plain GG of the C220.

BMbikerider · Mar 31, 2014

The mathematical formula I was taught when I did my City and Guilds (centuries ago so it seems) to find out the equivalent focal length comparison was the following:-

Divide the wider angle lens focal length into the standard lens focal length, so the 65mm into the 80mm = 1.23.

Now divide the 35mm equivalent standard lens, assumed to be 50mm, by the same factor, i.e. 1.23.

This gives a result of 40.65mm which is what the equivalent focal length would be needed on 35mm.

Likewise the 55mm divided into the 80mm gives 1.45 (recurring) so dividing the 50mm by the 1.45 you get 34.48mm equivalent.

It has little to do with diagonals because of the different shape format. You only need to judge that to get approx the standard lens size needed for that particular camera, but as this is already decided for us by the manufacturer, we have no control over this.

This works for other cameras too.

A 35mm wide angle lens used with a Mamiya 645 camera using this formula gives a wide angle result of 21.88mm (22mm for all intents and purposes) equivalent on 35mm cameras

Taking another example the, Bronica ETR series and the Bronica Sq series. The standard focal length on both is 75mm. so a 45mm W/Angle on both cameras gives a factor of 1.666

Therefore the equivalent for a 35mm camera using a 50mm lens is 30mm. It is not the diagonal, it is the width of the longest side is the controlling factor.

ajmiller · Mar 31, 2014

I use the 80mm all the time on my c330s but if I need wide I use the 55mm. I have the 65mm and never use it. As to the sharpness difference between 55 and 65 I'm not sure, for me that's not why I use a c330s set-up - there's something else about those lenses other than just sharpness. They have a 'quality' hard to describe. All personal opinion of course!

JDP · Mar 31, 2014

ajmiller said:
I use the 80mm all the time on my c330s but if I need wide I use the 55mm. I have the 65mm and never use it. As to the sharpness difference between 55 and 65 I'm not sure, for me that's not why I use a c330s set-up - there's something else about those lenses other than just sharpness. They have a 'quality' hard to describe. All personal opinion of course!

Agree with the 'quality' comment here, particulalry with transparency film, which seems to 'come to life' on this camera. Sadly, when I bought a Mamiya 645 pro to replace my C330f, I found the rendition quite different, and not to my taste - I sold it and kept the C330.

Regarding focal lengths, if you like 80mm, you can miss out on the 65mm, as people suggest. I have to say I don't get along with 'standard' lenses, finding them neither one thing or the other, so on my C330f I have 55, 65, 105 and 135mm focal lengths. All great lenses. I don't find the 65mm sharper than the 55. However, I did need to add a thin shim to my 55 taking lens when I got it, as it was out of calibration with the viewing lens. Both lenses are very good.

fotch · Mar 31, 2014

If you get the 55 you will think you should of got the 65. If you get the 65, then you will think you should of got the 55. Therefore, get both.

macvisual · Mar 31, 2014

Really appreciate the comments and advice, very helpful indeed. Thank you!

Regards;
peter

benjiboy · Mar 31, 2014

David Brown said:
I have both the 55 and the 65. If I could only have one, it would be the 55. The 65 IS very close in view to the 80 (or the 55, for that matter) but it does what it does.

Thanks, I rest my case.

Gerald C Koch · Mar 31, 2014

With the Mamiya C family of cameras, there is really not that much difference between the field of view between the 65.and the 55. I would base any decision on any meaningful difference in resolution between the two lenses.

Xmas · Mar 31, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
With the Mamiya C family of cameras, there is really not that much difference between the field of view between the 65.and the 55. I would base any decision on any meaningful difference in resolution between the two lenses.

for meaningful read detectable you need a slow film, a resolution chart and a tripod with concrete legs

If you need wide you need the 55 if you need compromise

BMbikerider · Mar 31, 2014

In my time I have used a C330 with two independently owned 55mm lenses. One was an absolute shocker and even stopped down to F11 it was hardly sharp right across the frame, never mind th corners. The other was a totally different beast. As contrasty and sharp as you would need even at F5.6 .. Oddly enough, after checking my insurance records, I found that the serial numbers were only 180 apart so probably from the same batch when made. I have aslo hear elsewhere the 55mm lens was subject to 'differences' in quality.

benjiboy · Mar 31, 2014

BMbikerider said:
In my time I have used a C330 with two independently owned 55mm lenses. One was an absolute shocker and even stopped down to F11 it was hardly sharp right across the frame, never mind th corners. The other was a totally different beast. As contrasty and sharp as you would need even at F5.6 .. Oddly enough, after checking my insurance records, I found that the serial numbers were only 180 apart so probably from the same batch when made. I have aslo hear elsewhere the 55mm lens was subject to 'differences' in quality.

I bought my 55mm New when they were current and I had to try three in total before I got a good one the quality was so variable, I was lucky to work in the trade in those days and was able to exchange them from stock, but you need to be prepared to try a few to get a good one.

Sirius Glass · Mar 31, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
I owned a C330 with the 65mm, 80mm, and 250mm lenses. The 65mm lenses is too close to the 80mm lens and I always thought that the 55mm lens was a much better choice.

Based on my experience with the C330, when I traded it in for a Hasselblad I ended up with the following Hasselblad lenses,: 50mm, 80mm, 150mm and 250mm. Later I bought a Hasselblad 903 SWC which has a fixed 38mm Biogon lens.

So you can see that I found the 65mm Mamiya lens did not have a wide enough field of view compared to the 80mm.

Smudger · Mar 31, 2014

There seems a consensus on the 'Web that the 55 varies widely in its performance.
I have two copies - one is "good" , and the other is superb.It is a lens I would not buy unless I could test it first, or the seller had a good return policy.

benjiboy · Mar 31, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
Based on my experience with the C330, when I traded it in for a Hasselblad I ended up with the following Hasselblad lenses,: 50mm, 80mm, 150mm and 250mm. Later I bought a Hasselblad 903 SWC which has a fixed 38mm Biogon lens.

So you can see that I found the 65mm Mamiya lens did not have a wide enough field of view compared to the 80mm.

That's what I'm trying to tell them Steve.

Mamiya C330 TLR lens choice (?)

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