Mamiya C33 mystery.

[Malice]

Hello
From the original manual: "After advancing the film, the filmwind crank must be turned in counterclockwise direction until it stops... Repeat after each operation of the shutter..."
I have seen people shooting C3 and yes, I have noticed second, counterclockwise turn of the crank, Rollei style. AFAIK in C330 you can turn crank only forward, clockwise. And how about C33?
On various forums I have found out, that most C33 users only turn crank clockwise, they don't see any reason tu turn it counterclockwise. OK, some of them found some reasons, some funny, some plain stupid.
So clockwise only or clockwise, then counterclockwise?
And one more question. If there is no film in camera, you can't fire shutter with shutter button (on camera body) unless you have selected Multi-exp. Am I right? Or maybe there is other way to test shutter with no film?

 

[MattKing]

Graham Patterson's excellent and comprehensive Mamiya TLR System Summary does indicate that, with the C33, one should reverse the wind crank back to the rest position after each wind.
Possibly to ensure that it doesn't interfere with access to the camera's controls?
With my C330, I do need to use the Multi-exposure set to "engaged" in order to fire the camera without film. That makes sense, because it is the double exposure prevention interlock that prevents release. It wouldn't be surprising to learn that the C33 has the same approach.

If you expect to do a lot of testing, a roll of backing paper on a film spool could be useful. Just be sure to clearly indicate what you've loaded into the camera!

 

[grahamp]

Watch what happens on the front of a C33 when you advance the crank, and then reverse it. There are two things that need to happen - advance the film, and cock the shutter. The C33 was the first model to offer auto-cocking on film advance. A lot of fixed lens TLRs use the wind forward for film advance, reverse wind for shutter cocking. The C3 was manual cocking only (think C22/C220).

The body shutter control is tied into the double exposure prevention. If the film is not advanced, the shutter release is not enabled. The Multi exposure switch disengages that interlock, so you may manually re-cock the shutter then use the body release again without advancing the film. A sacrificial roll of film (which you can re-spool carefully) or a roll of backing paper works to test the mechanics.

 

[Malice]

Hello. Thank you for the answers. I have another question, this time about parallax. I have 105mm lens, and parallax correction lever set to 105 as it should be. Even with camera focused to infinity (lens fully retracted) I can still see parallax indicator needle near the top of ground glass. Does it mean, that with 105 lens you need to do some kind of parallax compensation even when focused at infinity?
I understand that the same needle is suggesting exposure compensation. So if it visible near the top it is automatically suggesting to do 1,5 compensation... Someting is wrong with the camera or it is natural?
BTW, with lever set to 80mm needle is not visible with lens retracted.

 

[Luckless]

Something with the parallax thing sounds kind of wonky there.

On my C330f if I set my focus scale and compensation knob to the 105, then it looks like I'm not getting the needle showing against the top of the ground glass till about the 10 foot mark on the distance scale. Cranking the bellows out all the way (a little under 2 feet on the distance scale.) will drop the parallax needle down to about 1/4-1/3 of the way between 1.5 and 2 on the exposure compensation mark.

I haven't gotten myself a 105 yet, but the needle position on my camera seems to fall in line where I would expect it to be compared to my 80 and 180mm lenses and the photos I've gotten out of them so far.

How does your needle position itself if you crank it out to various other focus distances? "infinity" with some of those longer lenses have the bellows cranked fairly far out there. You mentioned 'fully retracted', do you mean the bellows are closed and tight to the box of the camera, or have you racked them out enough to reach infinity focus on the 105? (The difference between the Infinity mark on the scale and the 10 foot mark for the 105's scale is not a lot of focus travel.)

 

[grahamp]

The parallax/exposure compensation indicator should only come into play when you focus significantly closer than infinity. You can work out where it ought to be - the lens axes are separated by 50mm (2") - and the indicator should only start to make itself know at under 3' with an 80mm lens dialed in as that is about when the lens displacement becomes significant enough to affect framing. You can also calculate the bellows factor using the extension from infinity focus as a cross-check. If you set the focal length to the shortest and rack the lens right out, you get the maximum deflection. It should get proportionally less as you repeat the process with each of the longer settings. It is possible that the focal length setting on the camera is not working.

 

[Malice]

do you mean the bellows are closed and tight to the box of the camera,

Yes, that's what I mean.
With bellows closed like that and lever set to 80 pointer is not visible.
With lever set to 105 pointer is somewhere between 1,5 and 2 on exposure scale.
With lever set to 135 pointer is on 2,5 on exposure scale.
With lever set to 180 pointer is below 3 on exposure scale.
When I change focus pointer moves like it should, down.

 

[grahamp]

Only the 80mm setting should get anywhere near x3, and only with the lens panel fully extended. At the 180mm setting the indicator will hardly appear even at full extension. At normal (20'+) distances there is no correction needed for any lens (within one's ability to make adjustments). Something is slipping or incorrectly attached based on that description.

 

[Nokton48]

The C33 was always my fave Mamiya TLR body (At one time I owned all of them together).

Have you noticed the hundreds of rubber "M's" on the body rubber? Very cool

As you use the camera you will discover what everything is and does.

 

[AgX]

What is the mechanical background behind that need for reversing the crank rotation?

 

[grahamp]

I no longer have a C33 to verify this, and the manuals do not cover it. The C330 does film advance and shutter cocking in one full turn of the crank (360 degrees). The C33 does not cover 360 degrees, and has to be reset. The C33 evolved from the C3 which did not have automatic shutter cocking, so adding that mechanical function was a significant change. A lot of contemporary TLRs (YashicaMats, for example) used the forward crank for the film, and the reverse crank for shutter cocking.

I would imagine, not having looked inside, that there are cams that engage according to the direction of travel. The main benefit is that the strain on the crank and gearing is less when doing the two operations separately. The amount of travel, film versus cocking arm, is different. The cocking arm has to move forward and back over about a 90 degree arc. The film wind is measured by a toothed wheel in the film chamber. The number of rotations of the film spool will change as the film is wound on. Using a two stage advance/cocking process simplifies the mechanics considerably.

There is also an operational advantage to having the crank start in the same position each time.