Mamiya C220 won't stop at numbers

[Alex Caraballo]

Hi... I was given a Mamiya C220 in apparently very good shape, got it today. Mamiya-Sekor 80mm 2.8 looks super clean and works fine. Speeds and diaphragm seem to operate correctly. I don't have any film to test yet but when in "Multi" I can fire normally.

Now, Problem: I noticed that when in "Single" it won't fire, the shutter mechanism is locked. I have an empty film spool and when I put it in the upper slot and close the door, the counter goes to "0" and if I turn the lever the numbers pass in order but the counter doesn't stop at "1" as it should, Just keeps going though the numbers without stopping.

Is this normal? Do I need an actual roll of film there for the film advance mechanism to work correctly? I suspect the stop-cam there is somehow stuck and doesn't stop the counter as it should.

Film roll is in 120 in little knob and in plate. Lens release is in "lock".

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm a lifetime photographer but this is my first TLR.

 

[Alex Caraballo]

@Alex Caraballo the Mamiya TLRs need to be loaded with a real roll (paper + film) for all interlocks to work properly in "Single" mode.

Thanks Gregg!! God bless!

I really hope you're right. I read the exact opposite somewhere today browsing for an answer.

I'll get a couple of rolls on Saturday and try it. Best regards from LA!!

 

[mrosenlof]

The mamiya TLRs will happily wind without stopping if the shutter release is held down. It's an easy way to wind off the end of a partial roll. In order to stop at the frames correctly, you need at least to have an empty spool in the takeup chamber. This is consistent for my 330f and 220f. Earlier models may differ somewhat.

My cameras are routinely set to 'multi'. When on single, I often have the double exposure interlock trip before the shutter does. This also seems common.

If you don't know about Graham Patterson's system info pages at http://grahamp.dotinthelandscape.org/mfaq/index.html, you should take a look. Lots of good info there.

I hope it's working for you!

 

[MattKing]

Welcome to Photrio.
Check that the top two corners of the back are fully latched closed.
In particular, the one at the top right.
The backs can flex, and when they do, sometimes the corner nearest the counter doesn't fully click closed.
When that happens, the camera doesn't think that the back has been closed, so the counter mechanism doesn't work normally.
With my C330, along with the C220 I also owned in the past, I would use both thumbs to ensure that both of the top two corners were latched.

 

[Alex Caraballo]

In order to stop at the frames correctly, you need at least to have an empty spool in the takeup chamber

Ok, I do have an empty spool in the take-up slot (not a roll with film) and my film advance will not stop at the numbers.

the Mamiya TLRs need to be loaded with a real roll (paper + film) for all interlocks to work properly in "Single" mode

Now I'm confused again...

 

[Alex Caraballo]

Check that the top two corners of the back are fully latched closed.

Thanks Matt, already checked. It's a little more "open" on the right (winder) side, but the tab that senses the door closed seems to be working fine, even pushing and making it even won't make a difference. Still the advance won't stop at frames.

 

[MattKing]

Thanks Matt, already checked. It's a little more "open" on the right (winder) side, but the tab that senses the door closed seems to be working fine, even pushing and making it even won't make a difference. Still the advance won't stop at frames.

Check to see if there is any degraded light seal material impeding that tab.

 

[Alex Caraballo]

Check to see if there is any degraded light seal material impeding that tab.

Thank you, I just did. There's nothing there. Even tried and pushed that tab all the way in with a plastic tool to simulate a closed door, and the counter starts to move when rotating the winder (which indicates the tab is doing its job), but it won't stop at numbers.

 

[MattKing]

Make sure that the film change knobs are in.
Make sure that the Multi-Single switch is set correctly.
Make sure that the 120-220 switch is set to the correct position, and corresponds to the setting on the rotating pressure plate.
Try another film spool - you shouldn't need a film itself to check.
The film counter mechanism might not be in correct position. That would require service.
Perhaps Graham Patterson (@grahamp ) the Mamiya TLR guru will see this, and chime in.
I can't check my C330, because there is a roll of film in it right now.

 

[Alex Caraballo]

Make sure that the film change knobs are in.
Make sure that the Multi-Single switch is set correctly.
Make sure that the 120-220 switch is set to the correct position, and corresponds to the setting on the rotating pressure plate.
Try another film spool - you shouldn't need a film itself to check.
The film counter mechanism might not be in correct position. That would require service.
Perhaps Graham Patterson (@grahamp ) the Mamiya TLR guru will see this, and chime in.
I can't check my C330, because there is a roll of film in it right now.

Did all that, checked everything twice, even added some tape to the new spool (to simulate film and paper width), still can't make it work... the counter will go to zero and after closing the door it'll show the numbers passing when winding, but the stop mechanism won't engage.

I'm afraid it will need service... it was unused for a long time, something may be gummed up inside. I'm an engineer and troubleshoot for a living... already downloaded the (crappy) service manual. I may give it go.

 

[grat]

Just checked my C33. Open door, verify there's an (empty) spool at the top (take up), close door, counter resets to 0. Wind 5 times and it goes to "1" and stops. That's on either "Multi" or "single", but it only fires in "multi" without something resembling film/paper in the camera.

Also, "Fix Old Cameras" (youtube channel), just did a video on the C series side panel-- although his was on the C330, but it shouldn't be that different from the C220.

 

[grahamp]

These cameras use a toothed gear that presses against the film roll as it is taken up. It is on the end of a rod that displaces under spring resistance as the film is wound on. The best way to test this is with an old roll of backing paper if you have one around. The shutter release should have a little slack before it impinges on the shutter lever. There is a double exposure interlock that trips when the shutter release is pressed (very lightly on some cameras - keep your finger off, then be committed when you do trip the shutter).

There is a chance that the interlock is not clearing - it requires enough rotation for the frame counter to move to the next number. If the counter is running up with film or backing paper loaded and the back is properly latched, then I would suspect a problem with the shutter/film advance interlock if the camera does not stop winding at each frame.

The back should be set for 120 film unless you have some 220 film stock. Setting the pressure plate changes the film counter limit between 12 and 24 frames, but should not affect the interlock.

 

[Alex Caraballo]

Thank you, all... I'll try with film when I get a roll. Still suspect the interlock is not working fine.

If that's the case I'll see if I send it to CLA or do it myself.

Does anyone know a trustable service in the LA area?

I've sent my DSLRs to Samy's in the past for small stuff. Don't know if they'll service TLRs.

 

[grat]

Bill Rogers in Vegas (who frequently appears in Mamiya threads) is a solid guy and should be able to fix it. I personally haven't had him do any work on mine, but he had some very difficult to find parts that I needed to fix mine myself.

By the way, the video I mentioned earlier by the "Fix Old Cameras" channel, the problem was the side panel was dented, and was preventing the gear train from operating properly. Might check yours for a dent or depression on the same side as the winder.

 

[Alex Caraballo]

Bill Rogers in Vegas (who frequently appears in Mamiya threads) is a solid guy and should be able to fix it. I personally haven't had him do any work on mine, but he had some very difficult to find parts that I needed to fix mine myself.

Thank you for the tip, Grat! I'll try and contact him If I decide not to do it myself.

By the way, the video I mentioned earlier by the "Fix Old Cameras" channel, the problem was the side panel was dented, and was preventing the gear train from operating properly. Might check yours for a dent or depression on the same side as the winder.

Just watched the video, doesn't seem to be too complicated. I wouldn't touch one of my DSLR's but these old things are all mechanic, not very hard at all to work with.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thank you, all... I'll try with film when I get a roll. Still suspect the interlock is not working fine.

If that's the case I'll see if I send it to CLA or do it myself.

Does anyone know a trustable service in the LA area?

I've sent my DSLRs to Samy's in the past for small stuff. Don't know if they'll service TLRs.

Samy's will service TLR's too.

 

[Tel]

Bill Rogers in Vegas (who frequently appears in Mamiya threads) is a solid guy and should be able to fix it. I personally haven't had him do any work on mine, but he had some very difficult to find parts that I needed to fix mine myself..

+1

 

[Alex Caraballo]

SOLVED IT!! Hi guys! Finally took the plunge and opened the right side. The problem, as I believed and some of you suggested, was years of negligence.

Those interested can observe the attached pic. The main issue was the “central” cam (the one I’m pointing with the screwdriver). It was pretty gummed up and didn’t return with the spring as it should. After cleaning the whole system with lighter fluid and some careful lubrication, the precise but simple machine went immediately back to life.

This “central” cam pivots on its axle, its right side goes down, pulling a secondary cam up into the proper indentations below the numbers wheel, libertating the “central” cam so its left side goes up into the teeth of the winding gear, stopping it on the desired positions.Once the shutter is released the cam pivots again to it’s original position, liberating the winding gear, allowing it to rotate and the process starts again. Pretty simple, very neat japanese mechanic movement. Looks very robust too… apparently all it needs is a little TLC every 50 years or so.

At this stage I though the mission was a success but after refitting the cover again, the issue was still present. I then remembered the “Fix Old Cameras” video Grat suggested, where the (kinda-flimsy) cover was just a tad bent-in and pushing some piece not allowing it to move freely. So I removed the cover again, made a gentle bump out with my thumb where I thought the problem was, and put it back. This time the whole thing worked as it should.

Thank you all for your kindness and valuable input. Alex.

 

[Alex Caraballo]

By the way, the video I mentioned earlier by the "Fix Old Cameras" channel, the problem was the side panel was dented, and was preventing the gear train from operating properly. Might check yours for a dent or depression on the same side as the winder.

Right on target! Read my last post above. Thank you so much, Grat!

 

[grat]

Glad to hear it! Enjoy the camera. My C33 was my first medium format camera, and holds up very well in comparison with those I've bought since then.

 

[amspeidel01]

Hi... I was given a Mamiya C220 in apparently very good shape, got it today. Mamiya-Sekor 80mm 2.8 looks super clean and works fine. Speeds and diaphragm seem to operate correctly. I don't have any film to test yet but when in "Multi" I can fire normally.

Now, Problem: I noticed that when in "Single" it won't fire, the shutter mechanism is locked. I have an empty film spool and when I put it in the upper slot and close the door, the counter goes to "0" and if I turn the lever the numbers pass in order but the counter doesn't stop at "1" as it should, Just keeps going though the numbers without stopping.

Is this normal? Do I need an actual roll of film there for the film advance mechanism to work correctly? I suspect the stop-cam there is somehow stuck and doesn't stop the counter as it should.

Film roll is in 120 in little knob and in plate. Lens release is in "lock".

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm a lifetime photographer but this is my first TLR.

For me, I removed the right cover the cleaned the mechanics and now all good. It was complicated at first . Reach out if u need help

 

[mshchem]

For me, I removed the right cover the cleaned the mechanics and now all good. It was complicated at first . Reach out if u need help

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