Mamiya C220 features.....

CMoore · Aug 10, 2019

I thought i should just start a separate thread that was dedicated to the 220.
Not just this 220, but any 220 that is for sale.
When it is advertised with a "Chimney Finder" is that all it has....... or is there also a "normal" waist level finder incorporated with that.?
Thank You

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EXC-5-Mami...652&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

mgb74 · Aug 10, 2019

The Mamiya 220 finders are mutually exclusive. I.E. you can have only 1 finder installed (WL, Chimney, prism, Porro). That said, the focusing screen stays in place. So, in theory, you could remove the chimney finder and just focus on the screen without the benefit of the WL finder. Difficult - but theoretically possible.

CMoore · Aug 10, 2019

mgb74 said:
The Mamiya 220 finders are mutually exclusive. I.E. you can have only 1 finder installed (WL, Chimney, prism, Porro). That said, the focusing screen stays in place. So, in theory, you could remove the chimney finder and just focus on the screen without the benefit of the WL finder. Difficult - but theoretically possible.

Well, THAT is valuable info.
But, does that mean you cannot remove the Chimney and install (assuming you have one) a WL.?
Thank You

MattKing · Aug 10, 2019

Each finder comes off, leaving you the connecting mechanism for attaching another one.
They are quick and easy to change.
I really like the chimney finder - they are light and provide for an excellent view.
Their only downside is that they are bulky, so take up a fair amount of space when added to your bag.

Oren Grad · Aug 10, 2019

I had a C220 for a while, with both the waist-level and the magnifying chimney finder. I ended up never using the WLF. The view through the chimney finder was so much clearer, and the magnifier so much easier to use for critical focusing, that for my purposes there wasn't any point to the WLF. For sure, the chimney finder is much bulkier as it doesn't fold down. But if that's not critical, the chimney funder is much superior functionally IMO.

CMoore · Aug 10, 2019

MattKing said:
Each finder comes off, leaving you the connecting mechanism for attaching another one.
They are quick and easy to change.
I really like the chimney finder - they are light and provide for an excellent view.
Their only downside is that they are bulky, so take up a fair amount of space when added to your bag.

Oren Grad said:
I had a C220 for a while, with both the waist-level and the magnifying chimney finder. I ended up never using the WLF. The view through the chimney finder was so much clearer, and the magnifier so much easier to use for critical focusing, that for my purposes there wasn't any point to the WLF. For sure, the chimney finder is much bulkier as it doesn't fold down. But if that's not critical, the chimney funder is much superior functionally IMO.

That is some good "trivia"... thank you

The only concerning info that this seller provided is -

"Both the view lens and the take lens have a slight fog on the middle lens.
Both are usually unnoticeable levels,
but they can be seen by applying strong light such as LED lights."

I am not sure what that translates to for trying to compose an image or for printing.

However, they also state that -

There is no fungus.
There is no scratches.
There is no separation.

mgb74 · Aug 10, 2019

I'm not sure how a camera that is "Excellent+++++" can have fog (presumably haze) in the lens. I've noticed Japanese sellers lately being more generous with their overall rating; though they seem to disclose more in the detail. It does have the black Seiko shutter as opposed to the earlier chrome Seikosha shutter - which is good. I've heard that the "Blue dot" lenses are better than the non blue dot lenses, but I don't know if that's really true.

MattKing · Aug 10, 2019

mgb74 said:
I've heard that the "Blue dot" lenses are better than the non blue dot lenses, but I don't know if that's really true.

Whether or not they are better, they (and their shutters) are newer, because they are the last versions.

Alan Gales · Aug 11, 2019

mgb74 said:
I've heard that the "Blue dot" lenses are better than the non blue dot lenses, but I don't know if that's really true.

I've read that too quite often but I've never seen a test done between non blue dot and blue dot lenses.

I've also seen blue dot lenses on eBay where the blue dot had fallen out. I've heard of people painting non blue dot lenses blue but I don't know if this is true or not. I guess you could check serial #'s.

CMoore · Aug 11, 2019

Oh Boy. A couple more questions.

1. Cameras with a "Chimney Finder". Do you have to hold those pretty close to your eye, or are they more like a waist level finder that you can hold somewhat far away from your face.?

2. I should have grabbed a link, but some of these Mamiya, on Ebay say they come with a DS (105 f/3.5) lens. What does DS stand for.?

Thank You

Oren Grad · Aug 11, 2019

CMoore said:
1. Cameras with a "Chimney Finder". Do you have to hold those pretty close to your eye...

Yes. If you prefer not to do that, then then chimney finder isn't for you.

Grim Tuesday · Aug 11, 2019

CMoore said:
Oh Boy. A couple more questions.

1. Cameras with a "Chimney Finder". Do you have to hold those pretty close to your eye, or are they more like a waist level finder that you can hold somewhat far away from your face.?

2. I should have grabbed a link, but some of these Mamiya, on Ebay say they come with a DS (105 f/3.5) lens. What does DS stand for.?

Thank You

Chimney finder you have to hold close but you look down into it. The 105 f3.5 DS stands for...actually I'm not sure. I always asummed the S stood for Special but I have no idea what the D stands for. There are three versions of the 105mm lens for Mamiya TLR, the original one, which can be in chrome or black shutter and is a Tessar-style design. 4 elements in 3 groups. It is said to be very sharp but some people don't love the bokeh. Next is the 105mm D (no S) which only comes in black and is a Heliar-style design, 5 elements in 3 groups. It is said to improve the bokeh and still be very sharp. Finally, the 105mm DS is the Heliar design of the 105mm D, but also adds a self-timer and a very cool aperture on the viewing lens so you get DoF preview. It's a very cool lens, worth $150 by itself and one of the most desireable lenses in the Mamiya TLR system.

By the way, if you get a camera with a chimney and want to trade for a waist level finder I'd gladly trade my waist level finder with you for the chimney, I've been looking for one for a while.

MattKing · Aug 11, 2019

First - you need to record this link - Graham Patterson's Mamiya TLR System Summary: http://gapatterson.org/mfaq.html
It is excellent and comprehensive.
Graham posts here on Photrio reasonably regularly under grahamp.
The 105 f/3,5 DS lens is the only lens in the system which includes an aperture on the viewing lens - this gives you the opportunity to preview depth of field. This utility is of limited usefulness.

Oren Grad · Aug 11, 2019

MattKing said:
First - you need to record this link - Graham Patterson's Mamiya TLR System Summary: http://gapatterson.org/mfaq.html

What Matt said. A hugely useful reference, much appreciation to Graham for sharing the results of his research with the community in this way.

CMoore · Aug 11, 2019

Good Grief. I already had that sight saved but, for some reason, i was thinking it was for those Roli Rolei German cameras.
Thanks for the Lens and Finder info as well.!

mshchem · Aug 11, 2019

I've had both C220 and several C330 cameras with accessories. Top notch typical Mamiya outstanding machines. If you want a system camera, interchangeable finders, focusing screens, lenses, grips, backs and more get a Mamiya. If you want a much lighter and (usually ) less expensive I would look for a recently serviced Yashica. That was my first 120 camera, it was given to me. I sent it in to have the shutter cleaned. Not nearly as sophisticated as the Mamiyas. Hard to find them cheap today, the kids love em.

Grim Tuesday · Aug 12, 2019

mshchem said:
I've had both C220 and several C330 cameras with accessories. Top notch typical Mamiya outstanding machines. If you want a system camera, interchangeable finders, focusing screens, lenses, grips, backs and more get a Mamiya. If you want a much lighter and (usually ) less expensive I would look for a recently serviced Yashica. That was my first 120 camera, it was given to me. I sent it in to have the shutter cleaned. Not nearly as sophisticated as the Mamiyas. Hard to find them cheap today, the kids love em.

Luckily there are still cheap TLRs. Yashica-mat LM/EM have the same lenses as all other Yashicas but sell for less, for some reason. Also from Japan, the Ricoh Diacord is still under $100. Minolta Autocord is $100-200 and better than just about any other non Rollei TLR. And speaking of Rollei, Rolleicords are around $150 and bizarrely, I've seen a few Rolleiflexe Planars sell on eBay for $325-$360 in the last few weeks. All are a much better choice than the hyped Yashica 124G.

xya · Aug 12, 2019

if you fold out the magnifier of the WLF, you have a kind of a chimney finder. that's what I use most. I have several mamiya tlrs and I use them since ages. would not hand them in for any other brand.

grahamp · Aug 12, 2019

There are two chimney finders, one with a flip in meter like the the metered porofinder, and the other with a flip in magnifier. The chimney finder eyepiece does have some focus adjustment. Mamiya's documentation usually refers to it as a 'Magnifying Hood'.

darkroommike · Aug 18, 2019

Chimney finder good. WLF is hard to find separately in good shape since it's a bit fragile, but you can make your own with a cereal box and a bit of tape. It won't be pretty and it won't have the flip up magnifier but it will work.

BradS · Aug 18, 2019

CMoore said:
That is some good "trivia"... thank you

The only concerning info that this seller provided is -

"Both the view lens and the take lens have a slight fog on the middle lens.
Both are usually unnoticeable levels,
but they can be seen by applying strong light such as LED lights."

I am not sure what that translates to for trying to compose an image or for printing.

However, they also state that -

There is no fungus.
There is no scratches.
There is no separation.

This typical double speak that is so commonly seen from Japanese sellers on eBay.

CMoore · Aug 18, 2019

BradS said:
This typical double speak that is so commonly seen from Japanese sellers on eBay.

Thanks for the warning. It would seem other members have had a similar experience(s)

villagephotog · Aug 19, 2019

CMoore said:
Thanks for the warning. It would seem other members have had a similar experience(s)

I've had mixed results with Japanese eBay sellers, but it's definitely true that they dramatically overrate their gear. If it says "Exc++++", that means fair. If it says "Near mint" that means modestly above average for its age, maybe. It's not the worst problem in the world; you just need to apply a correction factor to the descriptive rating, as you would with a neutral density filter. Judged on its own terms, it's just a different scale, like a guitar amp that goes to 11.

However, twice recently I've received products from Japan with undisclosed defects. The first time, the seller readily refunded part of the purchase price and that was a satisfactory solution. The second one I didn't discover until several months later (I made the mistake of not testing it right away), and that has turned out to be a bad investment on my part (about $250, so not the end of the world, but annoying). Of course I can't prove it, but I suspect the seller's plan was to refund part of my money if I noticed, but only if I noticed.

I'm much more wary now. To be scrupulously fair, I've also received items with undisclosed defects from U.S. and Canadian sellers, including a Canadian camera store with a great reputation (I'm sure they did not know they were selling a defective lens; I didn't figure it out until I'd been using it for a year).

That tactic of selling something that has a defect and hoping the buyer doesn't notice, with a backup plan of accepting a return or issuing a partial refund, seems to be par for the course on eBay these days. (It was not common when I first started buying and selling on eBay far too many moons ago.) And just to reiterate, I think this applies to sellers of all kinds and places, from professional eBay operations to individuals clearing out their closets. It's part of the online culture now.

Anyway, bottom line on my meanderings here is that you should thoroughly test anything you buy on eBay, and do so soon after you receive it.

BradS · Aug 19, 2019

I don't even look at the eBay listings from Japan anymore.
I just scroll past them.
I wish there were a way to filter them out.

abruzzi · Aug 19, 2019

BradS said:
I wish there were a way to filter them out.

I don't think you can filter out a single county, but the filters on the left make it pretty easy to limit your search to USA or North America.

Mamiya C220 features.....

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