Mamiya 645af opinions

[mexipike]

What are some opinions here on the Mamiya 645af? I know of one for a food price but I'm not sure if I want to pull the trigger on it.

I currently own a mamiya 7ii and a leica m6. I want to shoot more portraits, and sometimes would like an Slr. Furthermore, I'm considering shooting weddings next season with my girlfriend and will probably use a dslr and film combo but would love to do mostly medium format if I can get away with it and I feel like Af would be useful.

(Oh and the guy will pretty much throw in an rb kit for free)

 

[Dr Croubie]

You mean which models are available?
645AF are the cheapest, because they don't have digital backs, around $3-400 for a body, add about $100 per rollback (the same back takes both 120 and 220).
AFD are the first to take digital backs, so they're more expensive, but are otherwise identical. Maybe $5-600?
After that are the AFD II and AFD III. One of them added more focus points, not sure which. I've seen the latter go for $800 or so.
The 645DF and PhaseOne models all take digital backs only and can't take filmbacks.

Best thing about them is that they're small and light and save film. Much more useful on a hiking trip (but if you've already got a 7II take that hiking). In a studio weight and portability are less of an issue.
The best part is it takes all manner of lenses. Portrait-wise I've gotten great results out of my MF 80/1.9, Takumar 105/2.4 for Pentax 67, and Zeiss 120/2.8 and 180/2.8 in P6 mount, via adapters.

 

[Oren Grad]

I had an AFDIII outfit for a while. I got rid of it after concluding that it was way too big, heavy, and obtrusive for the negative size it delivered. AF (which I think was supposed to have some improvement over the original 645AF) was decent, but not in the same league as a late-model 35mm AF SLR. If you're intending to photograph fleeting moments, remember too that a 645 SLR has a very substantial shutter lag and finder blackout; compared to nimble, responsive cameras like an M6 or Mamiya 7 it's an entirely different shooting experience.

 

[benjiboy]

I wouldn't want AF on a medium format camera it's just something else to go wrong, a hostage to fate.

 

[mexipike]

So not the greatest of thoughts on it so far.

What would you use to shoot a wedding in mf? I plan on using my mamiya 7 and 65 but need something better suited to portraits and using flash.

 

[macfred]

I think a Bronica ETRSi with AE prism viewfinder could be a good choice for portrait work and for shooting weddings -
they use leaf shutters in the lens, so flash can synch at any speed.

 

[benjiboy]

I wouldn't advocate a 645 SLR because with 6X6 you can decide later whether to crop horizontal or vertically 645 doesn't offer that option without losing a great deal of the image.
I used to use a pair of Mamiya C330F's because they were simple, reliable,and had interchangeable lenses with leaf shutters that would synchronise for flash at any speed to do fill in flash. In the days before digital about 20 years ago these cameras were standard equipment for many wedding operators.

 

[Oren Grad]

What would you use to shoot a wedding in mf? I plan on using my mamiya 7 and 65 but need something better suited to portraits and using flash.

If you like your Mamiya 7, why not just add a longer lens (80 and/or 150) to that outfit?

What specific problem(s) do you have using flash with the Mamiya 7?

 

[mexipike]

I don't really have any problem using a flash with it. I guess I just thought the inability to close focus and the slightly inprecise framing might be an issue. That and not being able to quickly change backs.

I've never used the 150 on the 7 but they aren't real expensive, how does it perform as a portrait lens?

 

[Oren Grad]

I don't really have any problem using a flash with it. I guess I just thought the inability to close focus and the slightly inprecise framing might be an issue. That and not being able to quickly change backs.

Imprecise framing could indeed be an issue if you prefer to frame tight and print full frame. With lots of experience one learns to judge the finder frames in a particular camera reasonably well, but there's still some slop. There's a similar problem with TLRs; I think the Mamiya TLRs will focus closest, but their parallax "correction" is pretty crude and there will still be framing issues. SLRs generally will do better with both close focus and framing accuracy, but then you have to deal with the noise/mirror shock/shutter lag/finder blackout. Can't escape making tradeoffs.

Quickly change backs - sure. Depending on how much you expect to shoot and on how many backs you're prepared to invest in, load and carry, this is more or less of a problem. Me, I strongly dislike loading "on the fly" the reverse-curl interchangeable backs of medium-format SLRs; I'd rather (re)load a Mamiya 7. YMMV.

I've never used the 150 on the 7 but they aren't real expensive, how does it perform as a portrait lens?

It delivers stellar bench test results like the rest of the Mamiya 7 lens line. The resulting character may or may not be what you want for a portrait. The major operational challenge with the 150 is that your rangefinder had better be in very good calibration.

 

[cramej]

I wouldn't want AF on a medium format camera it's just something else to go wrong, a hostage to fate.

Af on mf is no different than on 35mm.

I like using my 645afd. Focus is not as fast as my Nikon but I don't expect it to be. Image quality is fantastic. TTL flash, 1/4000th top shutter, easy to use, spot or averaging meter, works with all the manual focus lenses.

 

[mexipike]

Sorry this thread as turned a little bit more towards a which camera is best for weddings inquiry, but I guess that's where my interest must lie these days.

I definitely intend to shoot with my Mamiya 7 and 65 mm lens. I'm considering buying either an 80mm lens or 150mm lens to complete the kit and have more of a portrait lens. However what got me started down the way of the Mamiya 645 AF is that ultimately I would never have an ideal lens/kit for close up portraits and detail work. Also while I know the autofocus is slow it would probably be nice to have sometimes, but maybe not.

I really like the idea of an MF camera that can perform like an slr especially for events/weddings. The Mamiya 645 AF might be that camera. I should mention that if it is still available (a big if as it's been a while) I will be able to purchase the 645AF kit AND an RB67 kit for only $650. The RB67 camera would of course work well for my studio and product interests. However, whatever the deal, two cameras that aren't quite right for me are still two wrong cameras! $650 is still a good bit of change to me.

Two other thoughts that I had are either a Mamiya 645 Pro TL or a Bronica Etrsi. I can obtain either quite inexpensively and move up to a hasselblad or a contax 645 after I get a few events under my belt and decide what I really like. What do people think about these? Is one better than the other?

I should mention that at least at first I will also definitely be shooting a dslr to make sure I get what I want and to budget on film.

John

 

[cramej]

Contax 645? You'd better have deep pockets.

 

[mexipike]

Contax 645? You'd better have deep pockets.

That's kind of a way down the line kind of fantasy.

I'm mainly curios what people think about a mamiya 645af vs pro tl vs Bronica etrsi.

 

[MattKing]

Do you use flash in circumstances where fill flash is useful?

I ask, because that is where the Bronica has an advantage, because of the leaf shutters in the lenses.

I own a Mamiya 645 Pro (not the Tl) and have used it a few times in wedding and large group celebration circumstances, but never for pay. My wedding photography experience is mostly with a Mamiya C330, which also has leaf shutter lenses.

There are more flexible flash synch options available with the more recent 645 AF bodies and lenses and more recent flashes, but they are quite pricey.

I have looked with interest at the Mamiya 645 AF system, but I think I prefer the more modular 645 Pro or Pro Tl.

I prefer using a manual wind (although I have a power winder available). I like having the option of a waist level finder.

I really prefer having a left hand trigger grip, as compared to a right hand grip.

Of course, I am already fully invested in my 645 Pro system - multiple backs, multiple lenses. The lenses will work on the 645 AF, but will only meter in stop down mode.

 

[Alan Gales]

That's kind of a way down the line kind of fantasy.

I'm mainly curios what people think about a mamiya 645af vs pro tl vs Bronica etrsi.

I have never shot a Mamiya 645 but I have owned both a Pentax 645Nll and a Bronica ETRsi. I have only shot two weddings but I have shot a lot of people.

When shooting weddings or other events automation is really nice. You can can concentrate on your subjects and spend less time worrying about the camera. Matrix metering is really nice too. The autofocus will be a bit slow but you are shooting people who are hopefully not moving much. It's not like you are shooting sports where fast autofocus like my D300 shines.

 

[mexipike]

I found a really good deal on an afd on eBay and went for it. It should be in my hands on Wednesday. Assuming it's in nice condition if I don't like I'm sure I can sell it for at least what I paid if not more.

My deciding factor is that I really do think the automation will be nice for weddings and hopefully will allow me to shoot more MF film and less Dslr. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Alan Gales]

I found a really good deal on an afd on eBay and went for it. It should be in my hands on Wednesday. Assuming it's in nice condition if I don't like I'm sure I can sell it for at least what I paid if not more.

My deciding factor is that I really do think the automation will be nice for weddings and hopefully will allow me to shoot more MF film and less Dslr. I'll let you know how it goes.

Yeah, I think you will like the automation. Enjoy!

 

[GarageBoy]

IIRC- mamiya 645 AF models will only meter non AF lenses in stop down mode only