Mamiya 645

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

Hello

Some advice please
Sorry if I’m repeating something someone has previously posted.

I’m currently loaning out my colleges Mamiya 7ii, which seems a wonderful camera to use, however at some point I’m wanting to buy something like the Mamiya 654. I can’t afford the 7ii and film is costing me too much at the moment and only 10 shots per film. So far the reason I want a Mamiya 654 is:

You get 15 shots per film
It’s smaller and lighter than the Mamiya 67
It has a waist view finder which is fantastic for me because my eyes are not great viewing through the Mamiya 7ii range finder.

I know 654 is a smaller neg size and less description, but I’m trying to weigh things up financially. What I love about the Mamiya 7ii is the auto aperture setting. Do any of the Mamiya 654s have the AE setting? What are the difference between the 645 models? There seems to be so many variants and it’s a bit confusing. I suffer from ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis) , so some days I can’t function 100% , so I’m seeking a camera that will make easier than the Mamiya 7ii, for example large waist view finder and a pop up focus glass, and auto aperture.

I’ve also looked at the Pentax 645nii which seems to have AE and auto focus, however there doesn’t seem to be a waist view finder for this..(correct me if I’m wrong). I have also read up on the Bronica’s, but from what I’ve read they don’t seem to get good reviews.

Has anyone shot with the above? Any info or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

ruilourosa · Apr 13, 2022

I would go to a fuji ga645... I had too many mamiyas breaking down....

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

ruilourosa said:
I would go to a fuji ga645... I had too many mamiyas breaking down....

Thanks. I’m w sting something with interchangeable lenses though.

abruzzi · Apr 13, 2022

first, 6x4.5 is a nice format. Not quite the 1.5:1 you get with 35mm or 6x9, but 1.33:1, and definitely not square (I personally strongly dislike square, and think the ony real reason to shoot 6x6 is to not have to rotate your camer when shooting portrait, though many disagree with me on this.) Some will make the point that its not that much larger than the 35mm frame, but while its half the size of 6x9 it is almost 3 times the size of the 35mm frame. Some 645 cameras shoot 16 shots on a roll, some shoot 15. Older ones that use the red window all do 16 because that is what is on the backing paper, but a lot with geared advance dropped a frame, I assume to ensure that spacing was easier to deal with.

If you want an interchangable lens 6x4.5, the ones I can think of are:

- Bronica 645 (rangefinder, pricey but supposely very nice)
- Mamiya 645 (from the very early ones to later AF ones with digital backs)
- Bronica ETR (and ETRS and ETRSi)
- Pentax 645 (later ones are AF, all have power wind)
- Contax 645 (pricey)
- any larger camera with an optional 645 back like the Hasselblad but with a A16 back

I'm sure I missed some. If you're ok with SLR but cost is a concern, I'd look at the Mamiyas or the Bronica ETRs. I have a ETRSi, and its been a great and small camera.

BobD · Apr 13, 2022

Chrishuddersfield said:
I have also read up on the Bronica’s, but from what I’ve read they don’t seem to get good reviews.

I wouldn't say that was true at all. Sometimes one bad review can make it seem that way but, overall, Bronicas seem very well-liked to me, especially the later models. And, that's not just because I own two of them.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

abruzzi said:
first, 6x4.5 is a nice format. Not quite the 1.5:1 you get with 35mm or 6x9, but 1.33:1, and definitely not square (I personally strongly dislike square, and think the ony real reason to shoot 6x6 is to not have to rotate your camer when shooting portrait, though many disagree with me on this.) Some will make the point that its not that much larger than the 35mm frame, but while its half the size of 6x9 it is almost 3 times the size of the 35mm frame. Some 645 cameras shoot 16 shots on a roll, some shoot 15. Older ones that use the red window all do 16 because that is what is on the backing paper, but a lot with geared advance dropped a frame, I assume to ensure that spacing was easier to deal with.

If you want an interchangable lens 6x4.5, the ones I can think of are:

- Bronica 645 (rangefinder, pricey but supposely very nice)
- Mamiya 645 (from the very early ones to later AF ones with digital backs)
- Bronica ETR (and ETRS and ETRSi)
- Pentax 645 (later ones are AF, all have power wind)
- Contax 645 (pricey)
- any larger camera with an optional 645 back like the Hasselblad but with a A16 back

I'm sure I missed some. If you're ok with SLR but cost is a concern, I'd look at the Mamiyas or the Bronica ETRs. I have a ETRSi, and its been a great and small camera.

Thanks for the information, appreciated.
I’ll look in to these.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

BobD said:
I wouldn't say that was true at all. Sometimes one bad review can make it seem that way but, overall, Bronicas seem very well-liked to me, especially the later models. And, that's not just because I own two of them.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I wouldn’t base my decision on one bad review, these were different reviews from various websites and feedback from the technician at college, but fair one, it could be just bad luck with some.

I will loan one out from college and give it a try. Thanks

MattKing · Apr 13, 2022

Waist level finders are challenging with 6x4.5 cameras because they are great for subjects with a landscape (horizontal) orientation but extremely awkward to use with subjects with a portrait (vertical) orientation.
As a result, there aren't a lot of those finders around, and they tend to be expensive.
I've owned and used a Mamiya 645 Pro for several years, and am very happy with it. I use the metering prism finder more than 95% of the time.
The Mamiya M645s can be divided roughly into three categories:
1) the earliest models (now nearly 50 years old) which use film inserts, but don't offer interchangeable backs;
2) the relatively more recent models (now roughly 30 years old) like the ~~Supra,~~ Super, Pro and Pro-Tl) that offer interchangeable film backs;
3) the most modern, AF incorporating models, a few of which were initially intended to be usable with (almost non-existent) digital backs.
Each version has its own, age related reliability issues. Some things like lenses can be used with almost every body, with some usability complications. Some models work with some accessories, but not others.

pbromaghin · Apr 13, 2022

abruzzi said:
Some will make the point that its not that much larger than the 35mm frame, but while its half the size of 6x9 it is almost 3 times the size of the 35mm frame.

Yes, the step from 35mm to 645 is the biggest increase in wonderfulness there is (barring ULF). I prefer 6x9, but the difference from 645 is not nearly so great.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

MattKing said:
Waist level finders are challenging with 6x4.5 cameras because they are great for subjects with a landscape (horizontal) orientation but extremely awkward to use with subjects with a portrait (vertical) orientation.
As a result, there aren't a lot of those finders around, and they tend to be expensive.
I've owned and used a Mamiya 645 Pro for several years, and am very happy with it. I use the metering prism finder more than 95% of the time.
The Mamiya M645s can be divided roughly into three categories:
1) the earliest models (now nearly 50 years old) which use film inserts, but don't offer interchangeable backs;
2) the relatively more recent models (now roughly 30 years old) like the ~~Supra,~~ Super, Pro and Pro-Tl) that offer interchangeable film backs;
3) the most modern, AF incorporating models, a few of which were initially intended to be usable with (almost non-existent) digital backs.
Each version has its own, age related reliability issues. Some things like lenses can be used with almost every body, with some usability complications. Some models work with some accessories, but not others.

Thanks Matt, appreciated.
Just wondering, how would you take a portrait format shot with something like a 645? Do some accommodate this? Thanks

MattKing · Apr 13, 2022

Chrishuddersfield said:
Thanks Matt, appreciated.
Just wondering, how would you take a portrait format shot with something like a 645? Do some accommodate this? Thanks

You need to put the camera on a tripod, raise it to the height of your eyes, and turn it sideways so the lens points toward the subject and the finder points horizontally toward you standing at the side.
And you have to be comfortable viewing an upside down and laterally reversed image.

abruzzi · Apr 13, 2022

I've actually handheld my ETRSi in portrait with the waist level finder. It is challenging, but doable as long as the subject isn't in motion.

McDiesel · Apr 13, 2022

MattKing said:
Waist level finders are challenging with 6x4.5 cameras because they are great for subjects with a landscape (horizontal) orientation but extremely awkward to use with subjects with a portrait (vertical) orientation.
As a result, there aren't a lot of those finders around, and they tend to be expensive.
I've owned and used a Mamiya 645 Pro for several years, and am very happy with it. I use the metering prism finder more than 95% of the time.
The Mamiya M645s can be divided roughly into three categories:
1) the earliest models (now nearly 50 years old) which use film inserts, but don't offer interchangeable backs;
2) the relatively more recent models (now roughly 30 years old) like the ~~Supra~~ Super, Pro and Pro-Tl) that offer interchangeable film backs;
3) the most modern, AF incorporating models, a few of which were initially intended to be usable with (almost non-existent) digital backs.
Each version has its own, age related reliability issues. Some things like lenses can be used with almost every body, with some usability complications. Some models work with some accessories, but not others.

+1 on everything. Except it's "Super", not "Supra" I have a Mamiya 645 Pro TL which I absolutely adore using with a waist level finder. Absolutely magical experience, and extremely compact with a WLF and the 80mm f/2.8 lens.

But I mentally adopt "horizontal compositions only" mindset when using the WLF. I would suggest finding a deal when the camera comes with both: the WLF and a prism. Also, the aperture priority mode is only available with a prism.

Last time I checked, it was relatively easy to find a diopter adjustment lens for the Mamiya 645 Pro on eBay. AFAIK it's the same attachment that Mamiya 7 uses.

JL Nims · Apr 13, 2022

I have a Mamiya 645 Pro TL and absolutely love it! Personally, I use the prism viewfinder (model FE401) for portraits and landscapes. I don't have a waist VF; but I will use the camera without any VF from the waist when deemed useful, which happens more than I first imagined. I've also had the C3 TLR Mamiya, but it was a bit heavy as it was designed to be on a tripod all the time in a studio. The 645 isn't heavy at all. However, I prefer to have it on a tripod anyway. The camera produces beautiful images; and at 15 frames per roll, very efficiently.

Truly a joy to use!

MattKing · Apr 13, 2022

McDiesel said:
Except it's "Super", not "Supra"

Thanks - used my "super" moderator's powers to fix the screw up .
I have rolls of film that are shot using the waist level finder only - crowded car shows are an example where it is a good choice. You of course don't have any in camera metering when you use the WLF, because all of the cameras depend on the finders for any metering, and not all of the accessory finders offer metering.

Arthurwg · Apr 13, 2022

Let's not forget the Hasselblad V System. Easy to shoot 645 with an A16 back, and 6x6 when you want it as well. Makes for a versatile kit. True, the 645 I Hasselblad is awkward to use in portrait mode, which requires turning the camera sideways and using a prism finder, but it can be done. Too bad the camera's rare A12V back, which gives you a vertical 645 picture, is almost impossible to find.

ruilourosa · Apr 14, 2022

hasselblad is a far better option!

magical experience and a mamiya 645 do not match... i wonder what would be if you looked into a 8x10 ground glass...

mamiya 645 are dieying... as most eletronic cameras...

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 14, 2022

ruilourosa said:
hasselblad is a far better option!

magical experience and a mamiya 645 do not match... i wonder what would be if you looked into a 8x10 ground glass...

mamiya 645 are dieying... as most eletronic cameras...

Hi, thanks .
Does the Hasselblad 6” have an AE option?
They do seem quite expensive though.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 14, 2022

Arthurwg said:
Let's not forget the Hasselblad V System. Easy to shoot 645 with an A16 back, and 6x6 when you want it as well. Makes for a versatile kit. True, the 645 I Hasselblad is awkward to use in portrait mode, which requires turning the camera sideways and using a prism finder, but it can be done. Too bad the camera's rare A12V back, which gives you a vertical 645 picture, is almost impossible to find.

Ok thanks for the info

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 14, 2022

McDiesel said:
+1 on everything. Except it's "Super", not "Supra" I have a Mamiya 645 Pro TL which I absolutely adore using with a waist level finder. Absolutely magical experience, and extremely compact with a WLF and the 80mm f/2.8 lens.

But I mentally adopt "horizontal compositions only" mindset when using the WLF. I would suggest finding a deal when the camera comes with both: the WLF and a prism. Also, the aperture priority mode is only available with a prism.

Last time I checked, it was relatively easy to find a diopter adjustment lens for the Mamiya 645 Pro on eBay. AFAIK it's the same attachment that Mamiya 7 uses.

Thanks for the info. I’ll look in to the TL version too.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 14, 2022

MattKing said:
You need to put the camera on a tripod, raise it to the height of your eyes, and turn it sideways so the lens points toward the subject and the finder points horizontally toward you standing at the side.
And you have to be comfortable viewing an upside down and laterally reversed image.

Ok thanks.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 14, 2022

abruzzi said:
I've actually handheld my ETRSi in portrait with the waist level finder. It is challenging, but doable as long as the subject isn't in motion.

Thanks so the 6” is basically fine for both I guess.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 14, 2022

JL Nims said:
I have a Mamiya 645 Pro TL and absolutely love it! Personally, I use the prism viewfinder (model FE401) for portraits and landscapes. I don't have a waist VF; but I will use the camera without any VF from the waist when deemed useful, which happens more than I first imagined. I've also had the C3 TLR Mamiya, but it was a bit heavy as it was designed to be on a tripod all the time in a studio. The 645 isn't heavy at all. However, I prefer to have it on a tripod anyway. The camera produces beautiful images; and at 15 frames per roll, very efficiently.

Truly a joy to use!

Thanks for the info

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 14, 2022

MattKing said:
Thanks - used my "super" moderator's powers to fix the screw up .
I have rolls of film that are shot using the waist level finder only - crowded car shows are an example where it is a good choice. You of course don't have any in camera metering when you use the WLF, because all of the cameras depend on the finders for any metering, and not all of the accessory finders offer metering.

Ok thanks Matt looking forward to getting one.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 14, 2022

JL Nims said:
I have a Mamiya 645 Pro TL and absolutely love it! Personally, I use the prism viewfinder (model FE401) for portraits and landscapes. I don't have a waist VF; but I will use the camera without any VF from the waist when deemed useful, which happens more than I first imagined. I've also had the C3 TLR Mamiya, but it was a bit heavy as it was designed to be on a tripod all the time in a studio. The 645 isn't heavy at all. However, I prefer to have it on a tripod anyway. The camera produces beautiful images; and at 15 frames per roll, very efficiently.

Truly a joy to use!

Thanks for the info

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