Mamiya 6 - Pros and Cons?

[mooseontheloose]

A little background. I travel a lot, so most of my photography is travel-based, which often means shooting a variety of subjects. I started in MF with a Minolta Autocord, which I loved and used for years, but I found myself frustrated by having only one lens/one film to work with. So I upgraded to a Bronica SQ system, which I also love and have been using for years, but I have come to realize does not make for a good travel set up. Too many lenses and backs means a bigger backpack and more weight (since I also travel with a small Nikon set up as well). After doing some research, I think the Mamiya 6 would probably be the best "new" camera for me. I did think about going back to a TLR, probably Rolleiflex, or a Fuji GF670, but then I still have the problem of a fixed lens. While I most often use a 75/80mm lens, there are just times when you need something longer or wider (usually wider in my case). So having interchangeable lenses would be preferred.

Anyway, I have a few questions about the camera. First, I am interested in doing some low-light/night/star trail exposures with this camera, but I'm concerned about how long the battery will last for exposures lasting possibly hours. Research on the internet hasn't really yielded anything useful for me to go on. Anyone with experience using this camera for long exposures?

Second, is there anything I should be on the lookout for when buying a Mamiya 6 system? I'll be moving to Kyoto soon, which isn't great for camera stores, but it's near Osaka, which is, so I may be able handle it personally. Otherwise I'll probably be buying online from a Japanese dealer.

Finally, any other advice or suggestions would be useful. Thanks!

 

[Matt Fattori]

Rachelle,

The Mamiya 6 is a very nice, compact system with fantastic lenses. Most people will probably tell you to go with the 7 or 7ii as it has a larger negative and more lenses to choose from including a 43mm and a 210mm, but I went with the 6 and I love it!
Long exposure photography shouldn't be a problem unless the batteries old; new batteries should last a couple years or more under regular use.
It's a good idea, when purchasing, to make sure that all the caps and hoods are included because these can be very difficult to replace. It is, however, possible to get a better deal buying a less than complete package. I paid around 1'100 USD for the camera missing the body cap bundled with the 50mm lens missing the bayonet hood. I replaced the hood easily with the readily available hood of the same size from the Mamiya 7 system, which fits both the 50mm and 75mm lenses. The 150mm is a different story employing a screw in hood which has no equivalent in the '7' system.
For me the Mamiya 6 system has a few cons which limit it's versatility. One is that there are only 3 lenses; it would be nice at times to have something a little longer or a little wider. Two, the system is missing a fast lens with the best being the 75mm at f/3.5. Something in the 2.8 range would be really nice, BUT, none of the lenses focus very close or have particularly nice bokeh so portraiture is not really a strong suit of the system.
Ken Rockwell has a very thorough write-up of the Mamiya cameras at his site and I would recommend wading through to glean what information you can.

Here's a test shot with the 75mm lens on some Provia probably at f/4 or 5.6. I don't know if you'll be able to see but the bokeh can be quite distracting(contrasty) in backgrounds with a lot of texture. Cheers

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

I had a Hasselblad for many years, and a year ago I sold it to buy a Mamiya 6 system. Best decision I ever made. The Mamiya 6 with all three lenses is small and light enough that I can carry them in a small bag everywhere I go. It has replaced a Leica as my everyday, go everywhere camera. I've shot almost 200 rolls of film in it since buying it, and would not give it up for anything. Here's an example of a recent photo that could not have been done with the Hasselblad:

This is inside the dimly lit office trailer at a junkyard where I recently bought a wheel for my car. I shot Ilford Delta 3200 at EI-3200, handheld at 1/8 at f5.6 in the Mamiya 6 with 50mm wideangle lens. 1/8 at f5.6 on 3200 speed film means it was DARK in there, but focusing the Mamiya's rangefinder was easy.

Here are a couple of other recent shots, both on Ilford HP5 developed in PMK and shot with the 75mm lens.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

as a travel camera,the Mamiya 6 has many Pros(excellent lenses compact,light,wuiet)but, I cannot think of any Cons,wellmaybe the priceand no good for close ups.I'm a big fan of this camera;inmany ways it's better than my Hasselblsad,which is my first and biggest love.It has the benefit of being a system camera,which the Mamiya is not

 

[mooseontheloose]

Thanks for the insight guys (and great photos to match!). I have read Ken Rockwell's review of the system, plus numerous other threads and posts on various websites. I know there are other cameras I could try, but I like the square format, as I've been shooting it for years. I was in a local camera store yesterday and they had a Mamiya 7 in there -- it's much bigger than I thought, but I guess the weight is more reasonable than my Bronica. In any event, I still have a month and a half to decide -- that's when I get my "retirement pay" for completing my current contract. The first thing I'm going to do (after paying off my debts) is buy the camera!

 

[jerrybro]

I had a Hasselblad for many years, and a year ago I sold it to buy a Mamiya 6 system. Best decision I ever made. The Mamiya 6 with all three lenses is small and light enough that I can carry them in a small bag everywhere I go. It has replaced a Leica as my everyday, go everywhere camera. I've shot almost 200 rolls of film in it since buying it, and would not give it up for anything. Here's an example of a recent photo that could not have been done with the Hasselblad:

This is inside the dimly lit office trailer at a junkyard where I recently bought a wheel for my car. I shot Ilford Delta 3200 at EI-3200, handheld at 1/8 at f5.6 in the Mamiya 6 with 50mm wideangle lens. 1/8 at f5.6 on 3200 speed film means it was DARK in there, but focusing the Mamiya's rangefinder was easy.

Here are a couple of other recent shots, both on Ilford HP5 developed in PMK and shot with the 75mm lens.

Dammit Chris, I'm at the point where I've learned to love my Blad and you go and do this. Now what do I do?

 

[chip j]

I had a complete 6 system--body + the 3 lenses. I unloaded it because there was too much parallax for my street shooting.

 

[brian steinberger]

I highly recommend this camera. It's at the top of my list. I have 2 bodies and all three lenses. It's a great system that fits my style of photography which is a lot of hiking, documenting, and landscape photography. The lenses are the sharpest in medium format. It's light, quiet and simple to use. As long as you understand the things it's not great at: close-ups, portraiture (besides environmental portraits which it's great for!) and long tele work. And you also need to accept everything that comes with shooting a rangefinder; focussing using the patch, everything in the VF is sharp all the time, not exact framing as seen in the VF, etc. Many people can't get used to shooting a rangefinder no matter how much they love the images.

 

[mooseontheloose]

... you also need to accept everything that comes with shooting a rangefinder; focussing using the patch, everything in the VF is sharp all the time, not exact framing as seen in the VF, etc. Many people can't get used to shooting a rangefinder no matter how much they love the images.

I guess this is a bit of a concern for me as well, but I hope I'll be able to adapt to shooting a rangefinder with practice.

 

[spatz]

I got a M6 around the beginning of last year with all 3 lenses in top condition. Ive used it rather sparingly since then (~10 rolls) and somehow rangefinder focusing and composition does not work for me - i find myself always gravitating to my nikon FA/FM2. My photos turn our better when i compose and ocus on a groundglass. But my personal taste aside, the lenses are indeed top notch. I looked at an astia 100f transparency under a 40x microscope and there was just a crazy amount of detail on a radio mast 2km away. The whole system is very light and perfect for travel photography.

I did one journey out of the city where i took the M6 and tried star trail/long exposures. I used a cable release for a 2 hour exposure and there were no problems with batteries. I would recommend using new batteries for each long exposure session/checking the batteries with a multimeter before using them. If they fall below a certain voltage, the shutter closes (which can happen during a long exposure - the camera manual hints the film is likely to be underexposed) and it wont let you wind further until you release the lens by using a sharp point on the emergency release button.

As for things to look out for, my M6 one day developed an issue that it would not let me advance past frame 1. It would expose the first frame and then lock-up and winding it would not be possible unless you opened the film door. I had it repaired and luckily a good repair place in Sydney had spare parts to fix the common winding mechanism problem. So if you get one, ask about its history and if none is available be prepared to shell out 300 US to repair it or worse if there are no spare parts (which could be the case in Japan.)

All aside, it is a fantastic camera. The collapsible lens mount is itself a marvel. I will be looking to unload my M6 in the near future to someone who will use it to its full potential so if you want a M6 with all 3 lenses in excellent condition (all caps front and rear included) that has recently been repaired/CLA'd, then send me a pm.

 

[Matus Kalisky]

I own Mamiya 6 with all 3 lenses since about 4 years. It really is an excellent camera for travel, but there indeed are some cons and some things one should watch for when buying. The possible weak spot is film transport. It usually does not feel particularly smooth and gives some resistance. One should always transport the film gently without forcing it. So you may want to check it when buying - it has been often mentioned that once broken the film transport can not be repaired because there are no spare parts. I have not heard or experienced problem with electronics, but this camera is getting of age, so one should check that too when buying.

The cons in my opinion is light metering. It is of course not TTL (not really possible with leaf shutter). The problem I personally have is that the meter is sensitive over a very large area (angle) - it is actually larger than the view if the 50 lens (!). At the same time the sensitivity to outer areas is high, so in normal shooting condition outside the camera will put too much weight to the sky and if you use the AE you may get image underexposed by 1 - 2 stops. On top of that - the info in the viewfinder is only in full steps so it is not easy to point the camera around and compare readings. For me this resulted in using external meter (Digisix) for very most of the time. This is not necessarily a problem, but slows you down and you may loos a shot here and there.

If you plan to take more portraits you may want to know that while the 75 lens is a bit harsh (OOF areas), but the 150 renders beautifully. In my opinion the 150 is sleeper lens (check used prices) but it is as sharp as the 50 and 75. Focusing it precisely pushes the rangefinder precision to its limits, but with little practice it can be done. You may want to have the rangefinder checked when you buy the camera to make sure it is OK and save yourself a lot of confusion if it is not. Within the 4 years I did not have to have the RF re-calibrated - that says a lot about the robustness of the camera.

The paint on the camera is not the best and with more use (on a neck strap) you will see paint loss (film winder). Also on places where nails come to contact with body regularly. That does not have to mean that the camera was abused and is approaching its end of life.

Apart from that - the camera is solid, strong and robust. After about 100 rolls I have just sent mine to Mamiya Germany just to have it checked and one little thing repaired (the film tensioner on the right side came loose) and there was indeed nothing to be repaired. Interestingly - when I made the inquiry about possible repair/check I got the replay that most problem can still be repaired (what means not all).

For me - the Mamiya 6 was the reason to get to film photography (I took a bit round-about way and 4 years to get there). I may swap it for Mamiya 7 in the future (for landscapes and wider lenses) since I just like using TLR too much for 6x6. But it is one of the best cameras out there and definitely worth it to give it a try.

 

[StoneNYC]

The only con is it's not a Mamiya 7, it doesn't have a 43mm lens, and you have to get used to focussing a rangefinder if you currently use SLR's, and stock up on batteries as they go at odd times and are non-standard size.

But honestly, it's an amazing system, only bested by the Mamiya 7/7ii but it you prefer the square format and prefer the collapsible lens (really wish the Mamiya 7 had that) but either system are better than any other medium format for non-studio work.

 

[brian steinberger]

Let me just settle the parts issue up front. As of Feb 2014 you can still have the winding assembly repaired. Parts are available. I literally just sent both of my bodies for CLA to Bob at Precision Camera Works in Chicago. He completely replaced all internal parts of the winding mechanism with new. It was preventative matainence.

I agree with the above comment about the 150 lens. It is amazing with much better OOF rendering than the 75mm. And it is SHARP!! all the lenses are sharp, but in order I'd say the 50 is the sharpest, followed by the 150 then 75.

Regarding the Mamiya 7. One point that hasn't been made yet is that the Mamiya 7 needs external viewfinders for the 43 and 50. The 6 has all frame lines in the VF. Also the 7 doesn't have the collapsible mount, and it's 6x7 (ugh, I hate that format!! This is personal opinion off course).

 

[StoneNYC]

Let me just settle the parts issue up front. As of Feb 2014 you can still have the winding assembly repaired. Parts are available. I literally just sent both of my bodies for CLA to Bob at Precision Camera Works in Chicago. He completely replaced all internal parts of the winding mechanism with new. It was preventative matainence.

I agree with the above comment about the 150 lens. It is amazing with much better OOF rendering than the 75mm. And it is SHARP!! all the lenses are sharp, but in order I'd say the 50 is the sharpest, followed by the 150 then 75.

Regarding the Mamiya 7. One point that hasn't been made yet is that the Mamiya 7 needs external viewfinders for the 43 and 50. The 6 has all frame lines in the VF. Also the 7 doesn't have the collapsible mount, and it's 6x7 (ugh, I hate that format!! This is personal opinion off course).

Hah! Yes you need viewfinders for those focal lengths... They had to choose which lines to include which is understandable I think.

But there are more options. Also the viewfinder is actually really helpful in a lot of ways if you've used them. They have a level inside them, and gives you true view.

Also, I love the square format, but ANY frames you want will be custom sizes which gets expensive when hanging, or you can go 6x7 which becomes 8x10 or 11x14 or 20x24 without cropping...

I think both are great though. (Except the stupid back pops open on mine when in using the 35mm panoramic adapter... I don't know why, but I have to really make sure it locks properly with the 35mm adapter).

 

[PKM-25]

I like my M3 and it's 50 for that type of shooting, quiet, kind of discreet, see around the image area shooting. And I like my Xpan for some of the same reasons, it makes for a decent landscape camera because it has good inherent depth of field and is fast to use.

But I never got on very well with a Fuji GSW690III I had, not enough bang for the buck and not being an SLR made it hard to work fast to get that killer landscape shot that would actually sell.

A few years ago I also borrowed a friend's Mamiya 6 and the three lenses that he was selling, it was much better than the Fuji but still did not do it for me. The reasons were that for truly powerful landscape images, I needed to see the *exact* framing of the shot without the distraction of nudging the camera around based on frame lines. I also wanted to see the details of the 150 full frame, not like viewing a movie from the lobby....."Is that a white car that just parked on the far side of the canyon? I can't tell, the view is the size of a postage stamp".

I also need to see the affects of depth of field more often with medium format, critically so when working to hash out those uber tiny details that make a good landscape photo into a phenomenal one. I often work in very cold weather too and I am not at all a big fan of electronic shutters for that reason, especially when doing super long exposures.

And finally, being able to use more than one type of film at a time or having a few backs ready to go makes a camera system have solid footing in the productivity area for me.

I have had no issues at all skiing, climbing, hiking and traveling with my Hasselblad system...and it is now my largest most productive system by far.

For me the 6 or any other MF rangefinder did not hold a candle to what the Hasselblad system offers me, I have the photographs and the bank deposits to prove that.

I still may get one at some point as a grab and go but the price would have to drop a lot as it would be one of those cameras that gets used like my M3 now does, in a casual sense and when I feel like it...

 

[Matus Kalisky]

Nah, these Hasselblad guys keep popping up when real cameras are being discussed

Seriously - there is no doubt that an 6x6 SLR system can do far more as RF camera, but as OP stated - he find his Bronica SLR does not suit his needs for travel. In that case a Mamiya 6 is the best choice I am aware of. The difference is not so large when one carries just one lens and one back with the hassebald (in which case a TLR would probably be a better choice for travel), but once you add 2 more lenses than Hasselblad system is much larger and considerably heavier. Sometimes this difference does not matter, sometimes it does.

 

[StoneNYC]

I'd like to see a Hassleblad take a shot at 1/15th f4.5 it come out at all...

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I'd like to see a Hassleblad take a shot at 1/15th f4.5 it come out at all...

In the situation Chris showed above (nice shot BTW!) with MLU it'd be no problem though framing may not be exact and precise.

 

[StoneNYC]

In the situation Chris showed above (nice shot BTW!) with MLU it'd be no problem though framing may not be exact and precise.

What framing wouldn't be precise?

 

[StoneNYC]

MLU? Sorry I'm terrible at acronyms.

 

[PKM-25]

I'm good down to about a 30th with the Blad with an 80 or wider. I'm not saying that the 6 is not a great camera system and I really might give it another shot one day. I have just noticed that I used to be all about RF gear and now I don't use it as much because I simply produce a lot more quality work in using SLR cameras.

Heck, what is a 6 kit, $1,500? Maybe I ought to try it again..

 

[StoneNYC]

Dan I was just playing devils advocate.

Anyway I think the OP has vanished, and has enough info should he/she come back. So, adue...

 

[MattKing]

Dan I was just playing devils advocate.

Anyway I think the OP has vanished, and has enough info should he/she come back. So, adue...

I guarantee that Rachelle hasn't vanished.

She is a valued regular on the Postcard exchange. If she decides to go ahead with a Mamiya 6 system, I expect that she will get great results from it. FWIW, based on the postcards I have seen from her over the years, I think it will probably suit her style very well.

I wonder how the repair resources compare in Japan.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Yeah, I'm here! It's amazing how many posts appeared while I was sleeping...

You know, I do agree with PMK-25...a modular system like my Bronica (can't afford the Hassy!) is fantastic, and I love the results I get with it. But the reality is, I'm not a professional, I don't sell my photos, and the weight restrictions with carry-on means I'm often over the limit with my camera bag, I'm just lucky that I've been carrying a smaller rig whenever it's been weighed. So I need to go smaller and lighter, as much as I can. Not seeing DOF might be an issue for me, but I'll never know until I try it.

Matt -- I've been looking at repair centers in Japan and I think I wouldn't have any problems should I need repair work. Even if Mamiya wouldn't do it, I think there are a lot of independent camera repairmen who would be able to help me.

 

[PKM-25]

I guess I could always give a 6 a try again, I do love options. If I could rent it, that would be ideal but there is always the 14 day no hassle option out of Atlanta. 6x6 is my favorite format after all...