Making the Most of Rodinal

baachitraka · May 15, 2016

Seems PC-TEA wins a bit over Rodinal + Sulfite mixture.

Gerald C Koch · May 15, 2016

Sodium sulfite is most effective when used at a concentration of 70 g/l of developer. However this is for a low pH developer such as D-76. TEA is a good silver halide solvent and was used by Agfa in their Studional developer.

ColColt · May 15, 2016

I would not characterize HP5+ as an acutance film. Rodinal is a poor choice when it comes to high speed films unless you want large grain. If you want a long lasting concentrate then use HC-110.

I felt the same way and haven't gotten good results with HP-5 and Rodinal in any dilution. This lady does fabulous with it somehow.

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Thomas Bertilsson · May 16, 2016

ColColt said:
I felt the same way and haven't gotten good results with HP-5 and Rodinal in any dilution. This lady does fabulous with it somehow.

Try using HP5+ at EI 500-640, (in low to normal contrast, EI 320-400 in high contrast), and process in Rodinal 1+25 until you have the contrast you desire. That will bring it to life.

Colin Corneau · May 16, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Try using HP5+ at EI 500-640, (in low to normal contrast, EI 320-400 in high contrast), and process in Rodinal 1+25 until you have the contrast you desire. That will bring it to life.

I shoot almost all 400 speed film at 800 - I just like contrast. Never had luck with Rodinal with HP5+ either, although it's quite wonderful with Tri-X.

ritternathan · May 16, 2016

Sulfite doesn't really do much for Rodinal, but I do like it with a little Ascorbic. These are from my notes and the ideas are from P. Gainer:

When making a working solution of Rodinal, take 500ml water and add 2g of Ascorbic Acid (1/2 tsp). Then add 1g Baking Soda (1/4 tsp) and stir until it is done fizzing. Then add 10ml of Rodinal. Then add .5g of borax. Mix again and use it at 1:50 but with 1:25 times and then add 20% to it. It is sharper and slightly finer grain. In the end I found it easier just to mix up a little DS-12 if I wanted a non-staining acutance developer.

ransel · May 17, 2016

I am very frustrated - just processed two rolls of 35mm Delta 400 in Rodinal 1:50, 20 minutes - very grainy and the base fog is very dense. Is there an good film - Rodinal combination? I had been using HC-110 but when I ran out I found it easier / less costly to go with Rodinal. Honestly, I have never been thrilled with any of my attempts with either developer at any dilution - my motives for using them have been strictly economy and convenience. With my limited developer experience I much preferred the results of D76 straight or 1:1, but that was many years ago when I worked in a lab and didn't have to pay for my own chems.
So, practically speaking, for 35mm and 120, should I just give up on these two liquids and by some D76 powder? What are the alternatives?

baachitraka · May 17, 2016

PC-TEA

ColColt · May 17, 2016

That seems like an excessively long time. From what I recall Rodinal is best suited to thin emulsion films, something Delta 400 is not.

R.Gould · May 17, 2016

ransel said:
I am very frustrated - just processed two rolls of 35mm Delta 400 in Rodinal 1:50, 20 minutes - very grainy and the base fog is very dense. Is there an good film - Rodinal combination? I had been using HC-110 but when I ran out I found it easier / less costly to go with Rodinal. Honestly, I have never been thrilled with any of my attempts with either developer at any dilution - my motives for using them have been strictly economy and convenience. With my limited developer experience I much preferred the results of D76 straight or 1:1, but that was many years ago when I worked in a lab and didn't have to pay for my own chems.
So, practically speaking, for 35mm and 120, should I just give up on these two liquids and by some D76 powder? What are the alternatives?

Most, if not all Ilford films prefer Rodinal at 1/25, I don't know why but when I used to use Ilford film I never god good results with rodinal 1/50 but great in rodinal 1/25, These days I use Firstcall film developer, which is rebadged Rollei rhs with very good results and very fine grain, even with my go to film Fomapan 400

Thomas Bertilsson · May 17, 2016

ransel said:
I am very frustrated - just processed two rolls of 35mm Delta 400 in Rodinal 1:50, 20 minutes - very grainy and the base fog is very dense. Is there an good film - Rodinal combination? I had been using HC-110 but when I ran out I found it easier / less costly to go with Rodinal. Honestly, I have never been thrilled with any of my attempts with either developer at any dilution - my motives for using them have been strictly economy and convenience. With my limited developer experience I much preferred the results of D76 straight or 1:1, but that was many years ago when I worked in a lab and didn't have to pay for my own chems.
So, practically speaking, for 35mm and 120, should I just give up on these two liquids and by some D76 powder? What are the alternatives?

I've been using ADOX FX-39 lately with Ilford FP4+, Ilford HP5+, and Ilford Pan 400 and I absolutely love the results. Are they grainy? Absolutely. But it's pretty grain.
Rodinal would likely provide similar results, but I urge you to try the 1+25 dilution at 68 degrees if possible (Rodinal tends to give finer grain with lower temperatures).

ColColt · May 17, 2016

I've never tried any other dilution with Rodianl and FP-4 than 1:75. Always worked well for me so, I left it alone.

ransel · May 17, 2016

OK, I will try 1:25...since I still have 2 1/2 bottles of the stuff left and quite a bit of Delta 400 35mm left. I don't mind grain so much but honestly, it's been a long time since I have been satisfied with my 35mm negs.

ColColt · May 17, 2016

This was shot with FP-4 and Rodinal 1:75. This is why I don't want to change things.

Downtown014a by David Fincher, on Flickr

gone · May 17, 2016

Boy, that must have been shot ages ago. Po boy platter (spelled poor boy) for $1.70, 2 biscuits w/ ham, sausage, or bacon and coffee for $1, double giant burger w/ fries $1.55...mighty nice prices.

ColColt · May 17, 2016

Yep, it was a while back...about 1982 best I recall.

gone · May 17, 2016

Damn, I'm hungry just looking at that po boy platter price. Bad day to be a reluctant vegan in 2016

This is Tri-X shot at 250 and developed in Rodinal at 1/25. The grain is more pronounced in one shot because I accidentally under exposed it. You don't see the grain in prints unless you make it quite a bit grainer than this. I just love Rodinal grain. It's beautiful.

ColColt · May 17, 2016

Was that 35mm?

Gerald C Koch · May 23, 2016

ransel said:
I am very frustrated - just processed two rolls of 35mm Delta 400 in Rodinal 1:50, 20 minutes - very grainy and the base fog is very dense. Is there an good film - Rodinal combination? I had been using HC-110 but when I ran out I found it easier / less costly to go with Rodinal. Honestly, I have never been thrilled with any of my attempts with either developer at any dilution - my motives for using them have been strictly economy and convenience. With my limited developer experience I much preferred the results of D76 straight or 1:1, but that was many years ago when I worked in a lab and didn't have to pay for my own chems.
So, practically speaking, for 35mm and 120, should I just give up on these two liquids and by some D76 powder? What are the alternatives?

Tabular grain films (Tmax and Delta) are probably best developed in developers specifically formulated for them such as Kodak's Tmax or Crawley's FX-37 developers. These films are quite different from conventional films.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 23, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
Tabular grain films (Tmax and Delta) are probably best developed in developers specifically formulated for them such as Kodak's Tmax or Crawley's FX-37 developers. These films are quite different from conventional films.

I don't know about developer and film compatibility at all, so I'll leave that alone, but I've used Crawley's FX-37 with TMax films, and lately FX-39 with Delta and TMax, and it works very well. I've also used FX-39 with HP5+, FP4+, and Tri-X 400, and the results are really amazing. The prints are amazingly sharp with a well defined grain that gives very good acutance. Nice tonality too.

K-G · May 23, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I don't know about developer and film compatibility at all, so I'll leave that alone, but I've used Crawley's FX-37 with TMax films, and lately FX-39 with Delta and TMax, and it works very well. I've also used FX-39 with HP5+, FP4+, and Tri-X 400, and the results are really amazing. The prints are amazingly sharp with a well defined grain that gives very good acutance. Nice tonality too.

How do you find the FX-39 results compared to Rodinal ? It seems that they are similar types of developer.

Karl-Gustaf

Thomas Bertilsson · May 23, 2016

K-G said:
How do you find the FX-39 results compared to Rodinal ? It seems that they are similar types of developer.

Karl-Gustaf

Hej Karl-Gustaf,

I haven't made a direct comparison, but to me FX-39 is not as powerful as Rodinal, so it has a slightly more muted tonality. Rodinal is very powerful and will continue to develop negative contrast with seemingly no end in sight, so you have to watch it a little bit. FX-39 is definitely sharper with higher acutance than Rodinal, and so the apparent grain will also be more present.
Although I never really felt Rodinal was a very grainy as a developer to begin with.
Film speed is definitely higher with FX-39 as well. Rodinal gives me EI 200 to 250 out of Tri-X or TMY-2, and I get full emulsion speed with FX-39, which is definitely a bonus.

Ian Grant · May 24, 2016

Thomas, I think your comments about Contrast build up with Rodinal need more explanation. My experience was concentration is the key with Rodinal, I never liked it at 1+25 for normal use although I'd use it to boost contrast (N+2), I also found 1+50 a touch flat and would use the dilution for N-2 development, so I opted for 3+100 for the bulk of my negatives for around 18 years.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · May 24, 2016

Ian Grant said:
Thomas, I think your comments about Contrast build up with Rodinal need more explanation. My experience was concentration is the key with Rodinal, I never liked it at 1+25 for normal use although I'd use it to boost contrast (N+2), I also found 1+50 a touch flat and would use the dilution for N-2 development, so I opted for 3+100 for the bulk of my negatives for around 18 years.

Ian

Hi Ian,

My experience with Rodinal is that 1+25 and 1+50 yields basically the same result (with most films, the last version of the Agfa APX 400 did not work this way), as long as enough time is added to the developing cycle. The difference I saw was slightly higher film speed with 1+50 due to longer developing times, and possibly a bit more shouldering off in the highlights (which could be where your observation of flat results comes from). At 1+50 and normal contrast I would agitate every 30 seconds, same as 1+25.

This is just to my user eye, as I have never owned or operated a densitometer. Contact sheets and prints only, so I really have no other technical info to add.

At 1+50 or 1+25 I found that longer developing time equaled higher contrast, as it should (with normal agitation). If you slow down agitation, particularly 1+50 (or 1+100) will shoulder off more, and the even longer developing time will further develop the shadows, and this doesn't work as well with 1+25.
FX-39 appears to be compensating more under normal agitation than Rodinal, which develops a pretty straight curve.

I hope that helps.

Ian Grant · May 24, 2016

My experience was the tonal range of the films differed at the 3 dilutions I used with both APX100 & Tmax100, enough to make me chose the 3+100 dilution which is between the 1+25 and 1+50.

The late Peter Goldfield who'd assisted Minor White used to teach that dilution was an important control with Rodinal, my practical tests indicated the same, there's no tradition of using densitometers here in the UK, I now have one but haven't used it

Ian

Making the Most of Rodinal

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