Making prints from nitrate based film

RauschenOderKorn said:

If you can, store the negatives in a fireproof box

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It better be well-ventilated if you store nitrate film in a fireproof anything. You don't want to trap it in an enclosed area unless you're making film bombs.

In all likelihood the very small quantity of negatives the OP has can be stored safely if done properly. Keep it cool, check it twice a year, don't store it near highly combustible products. Large amounts of nitrate film can cause problems but has anyone ever heard of small quantities spontaneously combusting? I have a few (or maybe even a dozen or two) rolls of my fathers nitrate film from WWII that is still in excellent shape.

Lots of good advice, thank you all.

Here's a very low-fi image of one of the negs. Under a 10x loupe, it's sharp by my standards. The goal is to make 7"x7" prints. Most probably this was taken in Mandan, North Dakota. At the time, it would have been Dakota Territory, I think.

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I would just use it like any other bit of film my self, sure it is very flammable but I doubt you smoke in your dark room or have anything that could ignite it, even if your enlarger does manage to do this that one negative will just go poof and it will be gone in a second, the true danger with this film was when it was stored in very large amount like movie theaters and back then there was no such thing as fire safety. Have a fire extinguisher handy of course but that is something you should have in your dark room anyway.

pdeeh said:

No, it won't do that.
It needs an external source of ignition, and won't spontaneously combust.

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Yes it can. From the first document: "Contained gases and heat can lead to spontaneous combustion" Although I'm not sure how much risk there is for small amounts.

Lachlan Young said:

The Eversmart Supreme is a high end flatbed - similar quality-wise to the Imacon (outside the scope of this forum)

You'll be fine printing them in the enlarger - there are a lot of people with little real-world experience of nitrate negs making massive mountains out of molehills. Take reasonable precautions and you'll be fine. Don't forget that there are plenty of tintypists/ wet platers who manage to use similar materials perfectly safely.

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Just how flammable cellulose nitrate happens to be depends on the amount of nitration. The usual terminology is based on the estimated amount of nitrate present. So we speak of cellulose mono-, di-, and tri-nirates. Smokeless powder would be somewhere near the trinmitrate while celluloid film base around the di-nitrate. For wet plate photography collodion is used which is the mono-nitrate. So the amount of risk is much less for tintypists and wet plate practicianers. . Collodion is used in medical practice and sold as New-Skin liquid bandage.

Wayne said:

rom the first document: "Contained gases and heat can lead to spontaneous combustion" Although I'm not sure how much risk there is for small amounts.

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I stand corrected.

Gerald C Koch said:

Just how flammable cellulose nitrate happens to be depends on the amount of nitration. The usual terminology is based on the estimated amount of nitrate present. So we speak of cellulose mono-, di-, and tri-nirates. Smokeless powder would be somewhere near the trinmitrate while celluloid film base around the di-nitrate. For wet plate photography collodion is used which is the mono-nitrate. So the amount of risk is much less for tintypists and wet plate practicianers. . Collodion is used in medical practice and sold as New-Skin liquid bandage.

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To be fair, it's the quantities of ether and certain heavy metal salts used in the process that are much more concerning to me.

If the film is sufficiently degraded to be sticky, bubbly and smelly, call the fire brigade immediately. Otherwise, it should be stored well away from other non-nitrate materials, ideally in a fire proof cabinet. Unless you're talking hundreds/ thousands of square feet of film, a little care and attention will make things safe. Keeping the temperature below 10C and an RH of 40-50% are the recommended storage conditions - over 27C and 60% humidity can speed up the decomposition drastically.

AgX said:

Autoignition temperature of Nitrocellolose is above 160° C.

You hardly reach such temperature with a household incandescant lamp, other than burying the lamp in a heap of film.

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im sure there are plenty of reasons to be fearless, i'd rather be fearful
non-safety film has a checkered history ... as do a handful of
other things related to photography ( flash powder, cyanide fixer, mercury fumes, movie film ).

there will always be people who have a healthy respect and use these things safely,
but there are also people who have very little common sense, throw caution to the wind
and endanger themselves and others with their cavalier attitude. i'd rather suggest people
use safety film knowing full well that it can have "issues" like being unstable, not doing well in heat
giving off toxic fumes ( the link i posted is one of the resons kodak invented safety film ... when it caught
fire from a light bulb being too close to it, and burst into flames and people died when it was too close to a light bulb. )

Pretty sure the Cleveland Clinic had a lot more than 40 negatives though, and a lot more than any personal owner of nitrate films might have. The clinic had been accumulating them in a city of 900,000 for 8 years. Of course fire is fire and any fire can be deadly but the risk of spontaneous combustion, explosion and noxious gases would be much greater with such large quantities.

I'm not sure where ag got the figure of 160 C though. Nitrate film can self-ignite at much lower temps around 100F. http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/film.html

Wayne said:

Pretty sure the Cleveland Clinic had a lot more than 40 negatives though, and a lot more than any personal owner of nitrate films might have. The clinic had been accumulating them in a city of 900,000 for 8 years. Of course fire is fire and any fire can be deadly but the risk of spontaneous combustion, explosion and noxious gases would be much greater with such large quantities.

I'm not sure where ag got the figure of 160 C though. Nitrate film can self-ignite at much lower temps around 100F. http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/film.html

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wayne, you are right ... there were a boatload of films there, a few 10000x the surface area than a
couple of rolls of / sheets of film ... but still, the fire started with a light bulb on a couple of X-rays.
filament bulbs get HOT. hot enough to burn skin or start a fire.
a few years ago i got a nasty 2nd degree burn from a 60W bulb my arm touched.
while i don't personally have experience with light bulbs causing a fire/burning down my house i am certain
under the right conditions they wouldn't have trouble.

i am sure i am considered an alarmist in these sorts of situations. i'm an alarmist in other situations too
like sticking an 1000W arc lamp in an enlarger head as a light source, or smoking cigarettes while pouring collodion or
eating food in the darkroom, or pulling a "buckley" and dragging a propane tank by the valve instead of the handles.

more than likely enlarging nitrate film won't be troublesome, i'd rather make contact prints and keep the heat/bulb at
a safe distance and then make copy images of the contact prints... but thats just me, kind of paranoid and to each their own.