Making nice prints is hard work. Fibre base, toning etc.

Over this week I've spent probably 15 hours in my darkroom. I have managed to produce 4 variations of one print.
Using Ilford DW MGIV, Bromophen, I made the following
1. No toner
2. Selenium (KRST)
3 Kodak Blue Toner (Gold) 95 °F 10 minutes
4 Selenium followed with Kodak Blue Gold toner

I had an 8 foot sink full of 8x10 trays. Developer, Ilford Citric acid stop, Kodak Rapid Fixer (film strength ) a couple wash trays, hypo clear, selenium toner, gold toner in a bottle, and homemade Kodak F6a hardener solution to harden the poor gelatin from all the toners and to keep it from sticking to my indispensable Pako dryer.

I've got a pre wash tray, a huge Calumet rocking printwasher, motorized, enormous, and finally a archival washer hooked up with a recirculating pump to increase water flow and prevent air bells.

As expected my wife the Curator liked the two most exhausting and expensive to produce prints the best, ( so do I) I selenium tone everything. After rediscovering adding the gold as a second step......it is amazing.
It's so difficult as you just can't tell what you have until you go through 3 hours straight then dry. FB prints have to be dry to judge.
I've got so many negatives to print and hundreds of sheets of paper. Rainy days will find me at work.

Recently I also made four identical prints of a negative on Ilford MG WT in Bromophen, which were later toned in Selenium, Selenium / Sepia, Gold and one kept untoned. It does take a lot of time as I tone in a separate session after the prints are dry, and I ensure that prints are properly washed in a washer.
BTW, later I tried to print the same negative on Ilford Galerie paper, also in Bromophen. The print looks better than MG WT to my eye.

mshchem said:

Over this week I've spent probably 15 hours in my darkroom. I have managed to produce 4 variations of one print.
Using Ilford DW MGIV, Bromophen, I made the following
1. No toner
2. Selenium (KRST)
3 Kodak Blue Toner (Gold) 95 °F 10 minutes
4 Selenium followed with Kodak Blue Gold toner

I had an 8 foot sink full of 8x10 trays. Developer, Ilford Citric acid stop, Kodak Rapid Fixer (film strength ) a couple wash trays, hypo clear, selenium toner, gold toner in a bottle, and homemade Kodak F6a hardener solution to harden the poor gelatin from all the toners and to keep it from sticking to my indispensable Pako dryer.

I've got a pre wash tray, a huge Calumet rocking printwasher, motorized, enormous, and finally a archival washer hooked up with a recirculating pump to increase water flow and prevent air bells.

As expected my wife the Curator liked the two most exhausting and expensive to produce prints the best, ( so do I) I selenium tone everything. After rediscovering adding the gold as a second step......it is amazing.
It's so difficult as you just can't tell what you have until you go through 3 hours straight then dry. FB prints have to be dry to judge.
I've got so many negatives to print and hundreds of sheets of paper. Rainy days will find me at work.

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Yes, getting it just right takes a lot of work but,it's worth it. this reminds me of the story when AA spent a whole day and night to make 50 copies of one print just to find out in the morning that the dry down had ruined them all. He threw them out and started over.

RalphLambrecht said:

Yes, getting it just right takes a lot of work but,it's worth it. this reminds me of the story when AA spent a whole day and night to make 50 copies of one print just to find out in the morning that the dry down had ruined them all. He threw them out and started over.

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Yeah, I've read that story. My selenium toning work flow is after 90 seconds in fresh rapid fix I give it a 30 second rinse, dunk it into hypo clear and goes right into KRST 1+3. There's no staining as long as you have complete fixing. That saves reprinting. But you still have dry down to deal with.

iakustov said:

Recently I also made four identical prints of a negative on Ilford MG WT in Bromophen, which were later toned in Selenium, Selenium / Sepia, Gold and one kept untoned. It does take a lot of time as I tone in a separate session after the prints are dry, and I ensure that prints are properly washed in a washer.
BTW, later I tried to print the same negative on Ilford Galerie paper, also in Bromophen. The print looks better than MG WT to my eye.

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I miss all the graded papers. I used Kodak Medalist, it was beautiful. I am going to order some fresh Galerie, what I have is 15 years old.
Modern VC papers are amazing but for normal negatives graded works great.

Over time, you'll learn what toners do to the image and you'll learn to expose and print with the toning steps in mind. Like the look of variable sepia at its yellow range? Add some fog or highlight density (it ain't coming back). Like gold toner? My recipe tends to add density to highs and mids, so I print with that in mind. You'll get 2nd nature with it as time goes on.

M Carter said:

Over time, you'll learn what toners do to the image and you'll learn to expose and print with the toning steps in mind. Like the look of variable sepia at its yellow range? Add some fog or highlight density (it ain't coming back). Like gold toner? My recipe tends to add density to highs and mids, so I print with that in mind. You'll get 2nd nature with it as time goes on.

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I've been toning prints for over forty years. . Maybe it takes 3rd nature. Selenium does add density especially to warmtone papers. I reduce exposure by about 1/3rd of a stop for warmtone 1/4 stop for cold tone. I tone everything so my test prints are toned.

Kodak (Gold) Blue toner after selenium takes the purple out of the blacks and adds warmth to the midtones. I've never been a fan of sepia or Nelson gold toner. Straight Blue toner makes for beautiful blue blacks. But you go through about a 1/2 of gram of gold chloride in 10 to 12 prints.

I selenium tone rc snapshots. I love the d-max . Selenium is so easy as you can go directly from rapid fix into the toner. I use KRST 1+3 so toning takes 2 minutes or less.
I can only go for about 4 hours at a time. That's how long it takes start to finish 4 or 14 prints. From start to finish.

My RC dryer will dry a 8x10 in 10 seconds. Pako drum dryer 4 minutes for DW fiber. To check dry down on fiber you can blast it with a hair dryer. That's the issue with fiber is the prints have to be pristine, perfectly washed before they go on the fabric belt of the dryer. I just put a new belt on one of my Pako dryers, minimum order was 3 belts, over a hundred bucks a piece, cheap as far as I'm concerned.

I should take my backup dryer, put the old belt on it and use it ONLY for briefly washed test prints. Hmmn, I need to think about that? ?

Best Mike

mshchem said:

I just put a new belt on one of my Pako dryers, minimum order was 3 belts, over a hundred bucks a piece, cheap as far as I'm concerned.

I should take my backup dryer, put the old belt on it and use it ONLY for briefly washed test prints. Hmmn, I need to think about that? ?

Best Mike

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I got a used "flip-flop" canvas print dryer, the kind with a metal plate and canvas on each side. I took the canvas off and washed it; but I also cut 2 pieces of canvas extra; when I put a print on the platen, I cover it with a sheet of loose canvas and then close the main canvas over it. So I get a bit more pressure on the prints from the double layer, and if I ever want to wash the canvas, just washing the loose pieces should be fine. They're actually really handy for up to 11x14 prints. But I usually test for drydown with a hair dryer or in the microwave, or I'll just heat up the oven in the kitchen to 200° and they dry in a couple minutes (I still enjoy the occasional cigarette so... those little breaks get tempting!) I've found for the most part I have a sense for how drydown works for my most-used papers, but I do test from time to time. And not being a real "master printer", I'll sometimes use farmer's or selenium to fine-tune density. I do mostly lith printing, so selenium can be a real life saver if you get a print that's fabulous in the mids and highs but a hair weak in the shadows. I hate to throw out a print that's "close" since my kids and friends all clamor for prints!

mshchem said:

Yeah, I've read that story. My selenium toning work flow is after 90 seconds in fresh rapid fix I give it a 30 second rinse, dunk it into hypo clear and goes right into KRST 1+3. There's no staining as long as you have complete fixing. That saves reprinting. But you still have dry down to deal with.

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Just curious but why do you hypo clear BEFORE selenium toning? I think all selenium toners contain hypo so you need to hypo clear AFTER toning, not before.

markbau said:

Just curious but why do you hypo clear BEFORE selenium toning? I think all selenium toners contain hypo so you need to hypo clear AFTER toning, not before.

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I mix my Selenium toner (out of habit) with hypo clear. It's something I picked up in the late 80's. Makes zero sense. I use Kodak rapid fix with hardener. It's so darn acidic, the HCA gives me a little peace of mind that I'm not killing my toner.
I harden to keep the gelatin from getting soft and sticking to the dryer.

You are correct in normal work flow, go right from Ilford rapid fix into Selenium toner. If the print stains, it's time to get fresh fixer .

mshchem said:

I mix my Selenium toner (out of habit) with hypo clear. It's something I picked up in the late 80's. Makes zero sense. I use Kodak rapid fix with hardener. It's so darn acidic, the HCA gives me a little peace of mind that I'm not killing my toner.
I harden to keep the gelatin from getting soft and sticking to the dryer.

You are correct in normal work flow, go right from Ilford rapid fix into Selenium toner. If the print stains, it's time to get fresh fixer .

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I also HCA after Se.

One advantage of living in the low deserts, not that the temps are over 100F I can dry test prints on my patio on screen, does not take long. I sometimes bleach as well lightly tone, then mount. I spend a week on one print.