Making my own HCA

[Mats_A]

I promised some friends to make them some long overdue FB prints from their wedding. I think I even promised to have them done by monday. Looking through my chemistry set I noticed that I'm out of HCA. All left is some stock Kodak HCA mixed up in march.

To my (meager) understanding HCA is basically table salt. So could I make my own HCA by mixing 2 tablespoons of table salt in 1 L of water? Or should I tell them that "Monday is off. Sorry. The cat ate the developer."

r

Mats

 

[Ian Grant]

Salt will work it's not the most efficient, but should preferably be Iodide free.

Agfa recommended Sodium carbonate, but the best choice is Sodium Sulphite, either of these as a 2% solution.

Ian

 

[Worker 11811]

Sodium carbonate is what coffee pot cleaner is made from. Isn't it?
Read the ingredients carefully and you might find what you need sitting on the shelf in the grocery store.

 

[Wes Medlin]

Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda is pretty much pure sodium carbonate. I buy it for about $3 in the laundry aisle. It's pure enough I've used it to mix developers with, and yes, I use it to make HCA. Haven't done it in a while, and I don't remember the amount.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

HCA is sodium sulfite buffered to a neutral pH and containing a sequesterning agent for hard water. Check the APUG formula section for the recipe.

 

[Mike Wilde]

The only downside with the washing soda is now it has some tiny sort of perfume in it. When I use it to mix developers a scum layer will form. After a day the scum can be lifted off with a spoon, so I fill bottles to the top, or pack ina pastic squeezable bottle for th first day until it has been de-scummed.

Usually I use sulfite for Hypo claearing. A local wine making store should be an easy source of this.

 

[Robert Hall]

Sodium sulfite 15g/L
Sodium metabisulfite 1 gr/l optional as it simply brings up the ph as to not curl film.

This amounts to about a table spoon per liter.

Changes to sodium sulfate in about 4 hours in the tray reducing it effectiveness.

Don't waste your time with sodium chloride as the idea here is to reduce wash times from about an hour to about 10-15 minutes.

Check for residual fix is to place a drop of selenium (1+9 mix) on the rebate area of the print. If there's a stain, there is residual silver in the print and it needs more time in the fix or fresh fix.

Archival fixing, btw is 4 8x10 prints per gallon of fix. One can fix much more than 4 prints per gallon, but this is the archival standard.

 

[Rich Ullsmith]

Salt is fine. If you used a single bath fixer, or if you intend to tone the prints I would be inclined to use the dog story for your friends. That's a good idea, going to a winery or supplier for sulfite.

 

[Mats_A]

Ok. Thanks. I'll check for the sulfite. That is the stuff you get in a "wine making set" for cleaning the equipment? Or am I wrong on this also?

r

Mats

 

[Robert Hall]

Water treatment plants need it. If you have any pool suppliers, that would be a good place to look. I am lucky enough to have chemical establishments near by.

I can even buy rapid fix if I buy a 55 gallon drum (275kg)!

 

[Ian Grant]

Ok. Thanks. I'll check for the sulfite. That is the stuff you get in a "wine making set" for cleaning the equipment? Or am I wrong on this also?

r

Mats

That's Sodium Metabisulphite which is acidic, Sodium sulphite is alkali.

Ian

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Sodium sulfite 15g/L
Sodium metabisulfite 1 gr/l optional as it simply brings up the ph as to not curl film.

Sodiun metabisulfite will lower the pH and is used in HCA to prevent softening of the emulsion.

 

[kiku]

Ok. Thanks. I'll check for the sulfite. That is the stuff you get in a "wine making set" for cleaning the equipment? Or am I wrong on this also?

r

Mats

No, sodium carbonate (aka washing soda or soda ash) is what is sold at wine making shops for cleaning equipment. I believe 1 or 2 tablespoons in a gallon of very hot water is an excellent cleaner. My memory fails me about the 1 or 2 T mix so this should be verified by the wine supply shop's owner or a good book on wine making. I believe "A & H Washing Soda" is no longer pure sod. carbonate.
Howard Tanger

 

[nworth]

Here is some stuff on the subject that has bee abstracted from previous APUG threads:

Buffered Hypo Washing Aid
Written by Tom Hoskinson Posted (APUG): 01:52 PM - 11-22-2004
Buffered bath for the accelerated removal of bound thiosulfates from film and paper after fixing.
From Modern Photographic Processing, Grant Haist, 1979.
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 5 grams
Sodium Bisulfite 26 grams
Calgon*(optional) 1 gram
Water to make 1 liter
*Calgon is a Calcium sequestering agent (Sodium Hexametaphosphate)
Rinse film or paper in water after fixing followed by a 2 minute soak (film or paper) in this bath, then wash in multiple changes of water.
This is a buffered, high capacity bath - not intended as a one shot but can be used as one. The one liter solution should have the capacity to process at least 20 FB 8x10 prints. It can indeed be prepared as a concentrate.
Variations:
You can switch the quantities, using 26 grams of sodium sulfite and 5 grams of sodium bisulfite and that will also work just fine - with less buffering capability. 20 to 30 grams per liter of plain sodium sulfite will also work fine (it works best as a one shot).
By Ryuji - 07:35 AM, 01-18-2005 For best washing acceleration, I suggest to use 26g sulfite and 5g metabisulfite.
By gainer - 06:06 PM, 02-24-2005
Calgon is no longer a phosphate. It is a citrate. The liquid is trisodium citrate. The powder includes sodium carbonate and citric acid.
Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent contains both EDTA tetrasodium salt and Citric acid to hold minerals in suspension and prevent deposition in the bath. This is not usually a problem if the bath is used one-shot. Kodak's wash aid is approximately:
Kodak Wash Aid Stock Solution
Sodium sulfite, dessicated 100.0 grams
Sodium Bisulfite 25.0 grams
EDTA tetra-sodium salt 5.0 grams
387
Sodium Citrate 5.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter
For use dilute one part stock to four parts water.
--- Richard Knoppow

 

[Mats_A]

Thank you all very much for your information.
I have taken the "Cat drank the developer" option and also ordered some fresh stock of mix-it-yourself HCA from Hopeavedos which is a small Finnish company specialising in photo chemicals.

r

Mats

 

[stillsilver]

Yet another reason to get rid of the cat.

Mike

 

[2F/2F]

I doubt this will help you bootleg a HCA to get the prints done by Monday, but for future reference, here is the recipe from "The Darkroom Cookbook, Third Edition," by Steve Anchell:

Water at 125F/52C, 750 mL
Sodium sulfite, 200 g
*Sodium bisulfite, 50 g
Water to make 1 L

*The sodium bisulfite lowers the pH in order to prevent softening of the film emulsion. If paper is to be used, the bisulfite may be left out in order to improve the paper's gloss.

Dilute 1:9. After fixing rinse the print or film for 1 minute in running water then transfer to the HCA.

- single weight paper: 1 minute water rinse after fixer, 2 minutes in HCA with agitation, 10 minutes final running water wash

- double weight paper: 1 minute water rinse after fixer, 3 minutes in HCA with agitation, 20 minutes final running water wash

- film: 30 seconds water rinse after fixer, 1 to 2 minutes in HCA with agitation, 5 minutes final running water wash

Capacity: Fifty 80² inch prints or forty 80² inches of film per liter

So, it would make sense to me that you could mix the working solution directly by using one-tenth the weights of powders listed to make one liter (20 g sulfite and 5 g bisulfite).

Any pro photo shop that carries analog photo supplies should have the sulfite, but you will most likely have to special order the bisulfite.

 

[RobertV]

If you have run out of HCA the simplest way is to go for (washing) Soda (Sodiumcarbonate) in the supermarket often as Decahydrate, 1kg for approx. 0,70 Eurct.

In Europe it's often decahydrate Soda which means 10. H2O. Na2CO3. In the package it looks like the crystals are "wet".

1 mol Na2CO3 = 106g
1 mol 10.H2O.Na2CO3 = 286g

Using decahydrate Soda you need: 286/106 * 5g= 13,49g Soda (40,5g)

If your sicc. Soda (=without water) would be 5g/ltr. (0,5%-1,5%) 15g/ltr.

 

[Mats_A]

Hmm. I wish you guys could get together and agree. Kiku says sodium carbonate is for washing equipment and is not an HCA. And RobertV says I should use sodium carbonate. I think I will wait for my package to arrive

r

Mats

 

[Rick A]

Or you can just wash the prints for about one hour each in running water. Run the water just fast enough for about twelve full changes per hour, about once every five minutes. This isn't a very fast rate, but better than not getting the work done.

 

[RobertV]

Exactly, a long wash is then your alternative.

Sodiumsulfite and Metabisulfite (best option for a HCA) you can not buy in the supermarket so I gave you a quick and simple alternative.

40g (regular kitchen balans) in a liter (Soda) is very easy to make and maybe not the best HCA but it will work.
It's an old Agfa receipt.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

At one time Agfa recommended a 1% solution of sodiun carbonate as a washing aid for prints. They later stopped this recommendation because it caused unwanted softening of the emulsion making the prints easiy to damage.

It was discovered by US navy photograpers during WW2 that first washing films and prints in sea water (to conserve on shipboard drinking water) and then in a fresh water rinse resulted in better removal of hypo than using fresh water alone. This led to using sodium chloride as the first washing aid. Any salt that will not harm the image will work although some are better than others. Kodak did research on this and found that hypo was best removed using sodium sulfite.

 

[RobertV]

Yes, it will soften the emulsion but when taking care it's not a real problem. Again: OP asked for an alternative. You can buy Soda in every supermarket and you only have to check if you have sicc. Soda or deca-hydrate Sodium Carbonate for the amount you have to weight in.

 

[Ian Grant]

At one time Agfa recommended a 1% solution of sodiun carbonate as a washing aid for prints. They later stopped this recommendation because it caused unwanted softening of the emulsion making the prints easiy to damage.

Never heard that at all, my Agfa data-sheets were still recommending a 1% Sodium Carbonate bath right up to Agfa's ceasing paper manufacture. I've just doubled checked and that was in the last Agfa SW Hanfbuch released Jan 2005.

Soda interim bath
for fibre base papers
For processing black & white fibre base papers, a soda bath (= 1% sodium carbonate solution) can be inserted between fixer and final wash.
This enables the fixer to be washed better and faster out of the soft paper.
(From the English version)

The whole idea was to soften the emulsion slightly. I often used Carbonate and never once had a problem in over 20 years of using exclusively Agfa papers.

I would NOT recommend carbonate with Foma papers as they are less well hardened.

Ian

 

[RobertV]

Soda interim bath
for fibre base papers
For processing black & white fibre base papers, a soda bath (= 1% sodium carbonate solution) can be inserted between fixer and final wash.
This enables the fixer to be washed better and faster out of the soft paper.
(From the English version)

The whole idea was to soften the emulsion slightly. I often used Carbonate and never once had a problem in over 20 years of using exclusively Agfa papers.

I would NOT recommend carbonate with Foma papers as they are less well hardened.

Well I even did use Agfa in the past and Foma for the last 10 years and even with Foma papers it will work.