Making cyanotype plates

Tobychrome · Oct 31, 2015

I was wondering if it is possible to make a photographic negative using the cyanotype process. I can imagine that it would be possible since it would be almost the same as making a negative with photo paper. I'm just curious to find out if anyone has tried this and if anyone has any knowledge to share. Sorry in advance if this is a topic that has already been covered.

removed account4 · Oct 31, 2015

hey tobychrome

have you seen this .

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/cyanotype/in-camera-cyanotype-negative-prints

have fun!

Tobychrome · Nov 1, 2015

I wonder if there is any way to increase the sensitivity

Gerald C Koch · Nov 1, 2015

No, while certain iron salts are photosensitive their sensitivity is several orders of magnitude less than that of the silver halides. There is no way to increase this to a practical value for in camera use. So unless you can live with with VERY long exposure times you are out of luck.

removed account4 · Nov 1, 2015

as Jerry says slow is slow ...
but some say dr ware's formula is a smidgen faster Han classic ..
I ve no experience with camera exposed cyanotypes, sounds fun tho

john

NedL · Nov 1, 2015

At least (there was a url link here which no longer exists). He used the negative as the final result, with a blue sky.

Gerald C Koch · Nov 1, 2015

NedL said:
At least (there was a url link here which no longer exists). He used the negative as the final result, with a blue sky.

I don't think that this result is quite what the OP was looking for. I suspect he wants something more like a conventional negative with good gradation, etc. The cyanotype process can create very striking prints. However the response of all papers including conventional silver halide ones is very limited compared to that of negatives. So using the process for negatives hits two obstacles. Limited gradation and extremely long exposure times.

pdeeh · Nov 1, 2015

the biggest obstacle is presumably getting enough UV through the lens to get the reduction going.
could try a pinhole of course ...

Vaughn · Nov 1, 2015

Might check thru this:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

NedL · Nov 1, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
I don't think that this result is quite what the OP was looking for. I suspect he wants something more like a conventional negative with good gradation, etc. The cyanotype process can create very striking prints. However the response of all papers including conventional silver halide ones is very limited compared to that of negatives. So using the process for negatives hits two obstacles. Limited gradation and extremely long exposure times.

Hi Jerry, I'm sure you're right! I was just adding more along the lines of the alternativephotography link that John provided. The negatives displayed at the link have the same limitations you mention.

Tobychrome · Nov 10, 2015

Dos anyone know of a chart or anything of the sort that lists the different photosensitive chemicals in order of "speed", Even if there is one that is cheaper than silver nitrate but takes a few minutes to expose would be good enough, perhaps if enough people worked on it it could be made faster like how we went from wet plates through to George Eastmans famous Dry Plates

pdeeh · Nov 10, 2015

For processes that you can do at home, you are pretty much stuck with the iron- and silver-based systems, from my reading.

Tobychrome · Nov 10, 2015

What is the iron based system?

pdeeh · Nov 10, 2015

There are a few but the most obvious one is cyanotype.
Have you had a poke around at alternativephotography.com?

removed account4 · Nov 10, 2015

hi tobychrome

the other day i made a 9 hour exposure in bright sun and some just made cyanotype paper in there ( classic mix )
and it didn't record anything on the paper. next i will do exposure of 1 chemical and "develop" in the other
but i dont' think it will be much better. maybe near the coast ( water ) or in the winter ( snow ) so my
reflected uv is more and exposure times are less ..

good luck !
john

Tobychrome · Nov 11, 2015

I have just been reading about cyanotype and I discovered "cyanotype Rex". Does anyone have any experience with this method as I have read that it is considerably faster than traditional cyanotypes. The aim of my experiments is not to make a traditional cyanotype but produce photographs with a cheaper method than silver just to see what it's like. I have found a kit being sold by a local photographer that consists of Potassium Ferricyanide and Ferric Ammonium Citrate. Will these work for cyanotype Rex and if so what sort of exposure should I shoot at, aperture, exposure time etc.

pdeeh · Nov 11, 2015

The "Rex" process uses some different chemicals as well as the two you mentioned, I think. (which are the two components of the "classic" cyanotype)

I looked in to it a while back and found it hard to track down the exact formula/process as the guy who "invented" it seemed to want to sell you a PDF with the information rather than make it public. presumably it's leaked out by now if you google hard enough.
as i recall you also need ferric oxalate and/or oxalic acid.

The problem you face with using an iron-based rather than silver-based process for lensed photography is that the former rather relies on UV for the process to work, while the latter doesn't, it relies on visible-spectrum light.

This matters because photographic lenses block most UV (presumably due to the type of glass used, as the ordinary window glass we use in our contact frames for cyanotypes doesn't cause a problem) and therefore the sensitised paper won't receive sufficient UV to get the photochemical reaction going that produces the image.

There are good reasons why Silver halides came to dominate chemical photography - the alternatives are few and very inferior. There may be industrial processes that offer equally good results (I think there's something based on diazo dyes been done?) but it sounds like you are after something you can do in your bathroom/kitchen.

If you can track down a much faster cyanotype process that doesn't rely on a rich UV source, maybe it'll work, but you might have to do the research & testing yourself to see if the "Rex" will do do what you want. You m ight also have a look for Mike Ware's "new cyanotype" process.

Making cyanotype plates

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