Making B&W slides from negatives?

I'm fairly well acquainted with processing black and white film as slides now.Now I want to go a step further with the process and copy some of my negs as slides, but i'm not sure exactly how.

The method that is making most sense in my mind is contact printing my 35mm negative strips on to a strip of 35mm film. However, what makes sense in my mind and what actually works in reality are often two different things . I know I'd have to get the film perfectly aligned somehow (maybe a contact printing frame?), then figure out how to expose and load in a reel for development. All of this would have to be done in the dark unless I can find a bulk roll of ortho film.

I do intend to project the slides produced, so I'm thinking lith film is out of the question, not because it's in sheet form (I dont mind cutting the individual frames out and mounting them) but because it might be too thin and flimsy to project. Does anyone have any experience with this to prove me wrong?

I could use a slide duplicator on my camera, but I'm worried there might be a loss of image quality and the possibility the slide might not be perfectly parallel with the film in the camera.

Does anyone have any tips on how to do this? Any tips would be appreciated. I might give contact printing strip at a time next weekend unless someone can give me a better idea.

Thanks in advance

Leitz ELDIA - 9 to choose from on ebay.

Lots and lots of attention to dust removal and abaitment.

A clear base fine grain film. Print release film for movies is ideal but normally hard to get hold of unless you want to buy 1,000 feet. You might try Rollei Ortho 25, ortho film makes the process a lot easier as you can work by safelight.

Lith film works fine if you can find it -- our classes at the university do it all the time. Might need to tweak the developer to get the contrast you want.

An easy way to get a slide from a negative is to put the negative in a slide copier attachment for your camera if you have one. Most have a fixed aperture, f/11 for example, so metering for a good exposure is easy. Copies tend to build contrast, though, so develop the film to a lower contrast to compensate. Kodak used to make a copy film just for this but I don't think it is still made. A good low ISO fine grained film will work just as well.

Nicholas Lindan said:

Leitz ELDIA - 9 to choose from on ebay.

Lots and lots of attention to dust removal and abaitment.

A clear base fine grain film. Print release film for movies is ideal but normally hard to get hold of unless you want to buy 1,000 feet. You might try Rollei Ortho 25, ortho film makes the process a lot easier as you can work by safelight.

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I was unaware of the Lietz ELIDA. That's pretty cool.

I'm not sure if I want to deal with 1000 feet of film unless I could find enough room to store it, use within a reasonable ammount of time, and store it piece at a time in my 100 foot loader.

I dont remember seeing rollei ortho 25 as a bulk roll last time I checked freestyle. That might be a convenient option of I can get it. I have quite a few black and white negs laying around, so a bulk roll might save me a bit of trouble since I can cut off just what I need and maybe save a little $$$ too

Vaughn said:

Lith film works fine if you can find it -- our classes at the university do it all the time. Might need to tweak the developer to get the contrast you want.

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I used lith film about a year ago in a photography class where we made pinhole cameras. I still have a little left, and possibly my notes on my dektol dilutions and times to get a decent amount of contrast control. I might can perfect that process if I need to. I might practice on some of my FP4 I have in my bulk loader. If that works out ok, I might consider a slower, higher contrast film for copying. If it doesnt work, I'll give lith film a try. I've got nothing to lose and only experience to gain (at least that's what I tell myself. When I screw up, I usually have bouts of anger and disappointment in which I wonder if I'd be better off with that other photographic technology. The wisdom doesnt sink in till later )

Wade D said:

An easy way to get a slide from a negative is to put the negative in a slide copier attachment for your camera if you have one. Most have a fixed aperture, f/11 for example, so metering for a good exposure is easy. Copies tend to build contrast, though, so develop the film to a lower contrast to compensate. Kodak used to make a copy film just for this but I don't think it is still made. A good low ISO fine grained film will work just as well.

Click to expand...

I've seen those slide copiers floating around ebay, and that's something to consider.


I'll ponder this procedure for a while. I'm pretty much doing this to satisfy my curiosity, so I have time to experiment with stuff. I might end up with a copier of some kind in the end. My main drive is to see what my favorite prints look like projected on to a screen

Nicholas Lindan said:

Leitz ELDIA - 9 to choose from on ebay.

Lots and lots of attention to dust removal and abaitment.

A clear base fine grain film. Print release film for movies is ideal but normally hard to get hold of unless you want to buy 1,000 feet. You might try Rollei Ortho 25, ortho film makes the process a lot easier as you can work by safelight.

Click to expand...

Not something I've seen before, I'd have just suggested a slide copier attachement Enough were sold in the 80's

I've done this with a slide copier many times, using Kodak 5302 film (which is pretty much intended for this application) and developed in Ilford Multigrade paper developer. It is hard to get a hold of 5302 in small quantities nowadays, but you might have luck through electron-microscopy supply houses. The ELDIA is another possible route. Again, watch for dust.

The usual way is to contact print the negative on Kodak Fine Grain Release Positive film, or some other motion picture print stock, and develop it like a print. The issues are to use a film with sufficient contrast and a clear base. As suggested above, a lith film processed in a low contrast developer should work well also.

Jordan;1152419 It [i said:

is[/i] hard to get a hold of 5302 in small quantities nowadays,

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5302 or 2302 (the Polyester version) is rather inexpensive.

The last Kodak price list I saw wanted about 140 Dollars for a 1000 ft roll, with a minimum of 1 roll. (no doubt plus shipping) Direct from Kodak.

EASTMAN Fine Grain Release Positive Film 5302 / FRP666 / 35 mm x 1000 ft roll / On Core / KS-1870
CAT 192 8795

It is a Blue sensitive film at about ISO 2 to 5, so I can be handled under a standard safelight.

Data sheet is at
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/US_plugins_acrobat_en_motion_products_lab_h15302.pdf

cmacd123 said:

5302 or 2302 (the Polyester version) is rather inexpensive.

The last Kodak price list I saw wanted about 140 Dollars for a 1000 ft roll, with a minimum of 1 roll. (no doubt plus shipping) Direct from Kodak.

EASTMAN Fine Grain Release Positive Film 5302 / FRP666 / 35 mm x 1000 ft roll / On Core / KS-1870
CAT 192 8795

It is a Blue sensitive film at about ISO 2 to 5, so I can be handled under a standard safelight.

Data sheet is at
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/US_plugins_acrobat_en_motion_products_lab_h15302.pdf

Click to expand...

I just looked that up on the website. It might be a while before I make a purchase like that. Not because I dont have the money but because I'm not sure if I have enough space in my freezer to store a roll that big. I'm going to give contact printing my negs on to FP4 from my bulk loader before I seriously look in to buying this much film.

I do have one question: Assuming I go buy a roll of this, what would be the best way to use it? Load it in to a 100 foot bulk loader? Keep it in it's light-tight container/box and cut off what I need?

I havent went through a whole 100' bulk roll yet, but I've read I can get 18-20 36 exp rolls out of a 100' roll. could I multiply the amount of cranks to get a 36exp roll by 18 and wind the film in to the loader if I decide to keep a 100' roll in a bulk loader? (BTW, i'm using a Lloyd's loader)

Hi,

you should decide the way you will make the copies and then order the material.

If you use ELDIA there are alternatives to Kodak 5302 and 2302. There's Orwo PF2 and PF2plus from Filmotec which are (at least for Europeans) half the Kodak price. Minimum order is 1000ft bulk.

There's one big drawback with ELDIA contact copy process. How to measure the exposure?

Another way is to use slide duplicators attached to a camera with bulit-in metering. Very easy way to make the slides from negatives. If you use good lens, there's no problem with quality. Also, you can use faster high contrast films like Kodak TechPan or even better Rollei Ortho 25 (crystal clean base!). If you do not want to make thousands of slides, I'd suggest going this way.

vencahaus said:

Hi,

you should decide the way you will make the copies and then order the material.

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, totally agree

vencahaus said:

If you use ELDIA there are alternatives to Kodak 5302 and 2302. There's Orwo PF2 and PF2plus from Filmotec which are (at least for Europeans) half the Kodak price. Minimum order is 1000ft bulk.

There's one big drawback with ELDIA contact copy process. How to measure the exposure?

Another way is to use slide duplicators attached to a camera with bulit-in metering. Very easy way to make the slides from negatives. If you use good lens, there's no problem with quality. Also, you can use faster high contrast films like Kodak TechPan or even better Rollei Ortho 25 (crystal clean base!). If you do not want to make thousands of slides, I'd suggest going this way.

Click to expand...

The elida and slide duplicators for my cameras are a possibility, but I'd hate to buy another piece of equipment (I'm running out of space to keep stuff, but those seem quite small so finding a spot shouldnt be a challenge).

I dont have thousands of slides to make, but there are a few hundred 35mm black and white negatives and alomost as many color, which I may or may not attempt to copy. (and I'm pretty sure color would need a pan film, right?)

I'm just openly pondering on Apug the different ways to copy my negatives in to slides. I havent decided on the "best" way yet. I am going to try contact printing FP4 this weekend. If the contact printing doesnt go as planned, I'll try grabbing a slide duplicator. If the black and white goes well, I might give some of my color negs a shot

Well, there's at least one more option. The way I do this is that I use Nikon F90x attached to an enlarger. I only had to buy an adapter ring "inverse" M42-M39. This allows me to attach: F90x-nikon mount/M42 adapter - M42 macro "tubes" - M42-M39 ring - enlarging lens holder - Rodagon 50mm oriented towards "inside" of the enlarger Meopta Magnifax 4 with condenser head. Its a perfect duplicator, with a perfect ligth dispersion, contrast etc... and the best thing? I can make slides form negatives up to 6x9!

Adaper rings cost few bucks in chinese ebay shops...

As for material, I tried techpan, rollei ortho 25, rollei atp and orwo pf2. Rollei ortho 25 is very good for the duplicator way. It is not so low speed but has enough of contrast (which you really need, especially if your negatives are "normal").

There is also a color print film. Kodak made something like Vericolor or so. It was hi-contrast C41 process film without color cast, so a negative of negative was bright positive. But I heard these films got old very fast and the production ceased some 2004 or so...