Making B&W Prints Using Color Film

[jettmn]

I was wondering how successful people have been making black and white prints using color film. I have a few color negatives I want to try to print in black and white but am wondering if its worth my time to try it out.

Thanks!

 

[SalveSlog]

I think the sensitivity of the emulsion on paper is different for different colors. So the b&w tonality will end up strange.

 

[MattKing]

You can do it, but the contrast response is a bit strange, due to the colours in the negatives.
In addition, the orange mask can create a bit of a challenge, particularly with variable contrast paper.
But you will get usable images, and in many cases they will look close to normal, if you don't mind fairly low contrast results.

 

[jettmn]

I remember reading that if I set the color filters on my enlarger head to 60 Cyan and 50 Magenta it should help filter out the orange. Wonder if that would help with the orange mask of the film.

 

[ann]

I have had students try this with various results. A bit=tricky but can be done

 

[MattKing]

I remember reading that if I set the color filters on my enlarger head to 60 Cyan and 50 Magenta it should help filter out the orange. Wonder if that would help with the orange mask of the film.

The orange mask just distorts the light toward red (no effect on the paper) and yellow (has an effect on the higher speed, blue sensitive portion of the paper emulsion that is used to build up contrast).
Adding cyan and magenta effectively adds blue to the source (or at least reduces yellow and leaves the rest). It might make some difference.

 

[koraks]

Adding cyan (taking out red) won't do anything. Adding magenta will raise contrast with VC papers and C41 negatives usually need that as they're inherently low contrast (if properly exposed and developed for color printing).

 

[Bob Carnie]

the first show in my gallery is made up of lith prints from 35mm colour negs.. so I would say yes.

 

[pentaxuser]

Not trying to contradict any posters here but my admittedly relatively limited experience of making b&w prints from C41 colour negative is that the tonal distortion effect may be exaggerated. It all goes back to what standards you set and what results you will accept but it is worth a try. You may be like me and are pleasantly surprised at the results

pentaxuser

 

[Rudeofus]

Color negatives have some special properties, which do not line up with what black&white paper expects:

1. contrast is lower than typical black&white films. Paper grade 5 will be your friend.
2. Anything red you photographed will be cyan in your color negatives. Cyan equals "minus red", which means your color paper is insensitive to it. Anything red in your original subject matter will record as black, similar to orthochromatic film.
3. Anything green you photographed will be magenta in your color negatives, which is "minus green". Your multigrade paper will respond with a low contrast image, single grade papers almost not at all.
4. Anything blue you photographed will be yellow in your color negatives, which is "minus blue". Your multigrade paper will respond with a high contrast image.
5. Anything with mixed colors will be somewhere in between these effects.
6. On top of that you have the orange mask, which can at least be compensated for through filtration.

This means your tones will be all over the place, and barely resemble the scene you saw.

 

[Paul Howell]

In terms of cost it makes more sense to scan, turn into a black and white digital file and print on inkjet. I don't recall when Kodak stopped making panalure (sp?) a black and white paper designed for color negatives, the few times I used it I was not that impressed, just doable.

 

[jim10219]

In terms of cost it makes more sense to scan, turn into a black and white digital file and print on inkjet. I don't recall when Kodak stopped making panalure (sp?) a black and white paper designed for color negatives, the few times I used it I was not that impressed, just doable.

Plus you get a lot more control this way. In fact, I prefer scanning color film and printing digitally to RA4 printing (never tried C41 to silver gelatin). With a good scan, inkjet printer and paper, and some PS skills, I believe you can make a better looking print this way than in the darkroom. Of course, the downside is if you're going for the look of an RA4 or silver gelatin print, then inkjet just won't do that very well.

 

[CMoore]

You can do it, but the contrast response is a bit strange, due to the colours in the negatives.
In addition, the orange mask can create a bit of a challenge, particularly with variable contrast paper.
But you will get usable images, and in many cases they will look close to normal, if you don't mind fairly low contrast results.

Exactly my experience.
I just printed a few color negs... circa 1995, from Disneyland.
I think i was at 80M on my Beseler color head, but as Matt says....it made a very "Usable" and "Normal" looking print.

 

[mrosenlof]

The traditional way to do this is with a pan chromatic b/w paper. Kodak panalure was the one I knew. these days, I would probably scan and inkjet print. if I really wanted to keep it a purely chemical process, I would make an inter positive on panchro film, then a neg, then a print. I have used One 25 sheet package of panalure in my lifetime, and have never done the copy neg route, so keep that in mind.

 

[grainyvision]

I've done it and found that it looks the best if you're printing from a fairly boring and non-colorful negative. It's the perfect way to "save" a boring picture by taking it into B/W, but I've gotten really weird results when using something colorful, or even certain film types like Ektar that are high saturation. At the end of the day, you just have to try it and see if it works or not for your particular negative. I've also seen both high and low contrast results from it, just depends on the negative. As a starting point I'd print at grade 3 and use double the exposure level you'd use for normal B/W prints.

 

[markbau]

Color negatives have some special properties, which do not line up with what black&white paper expects:
This means your tones will be all over the place, and barely resemble the scene you saw.

I don't agree with this at all. I have printed C41 negs on MG paper quite a few times over the years. Yes, the tonal rendition is not what you would get using B&W film but there is no way I would agree that it is "all over the place" The only thing I would say is don't expect red to print as anything except near black. So don't print photos of cowboys with red shirts and MAGA hats holding a pack of Marlboro and drinking a can of coke.

 

[CMoore]

I don't agree with this at all. I have printed C41 negs on MG paper quite a few times over the years. Yes, the tonal rendition is not what you would get using B&W film but there is no way I would agree that it is "all over the place" The only thing I would say is don't expect red to print as anything except near black. So don't print photos of cowboys with red shirts and MAGA hats holding a pack of Marlboro and drinking a can of coke.

 

[Rudeofus]

I don't agree with this at all. I have printed C41 negs on MG paper quite a few times over the years. Yes, the tonal rendition is not what you would get using B&W film but there is no way I would agree that it is "all over the place" The only thing I would say is don't expect red to print as anything except near black. So don't print photos of cowboys with red shirts and MAGA hats holding a pack of Marlboro and drinking a can of coke.

If a motive contains important subject matter in red, then you can't really print it. Also, green turns to mush, so goodbye landscapes. This is my definition of "tones are all over the place", which still counts as very moderate position in the large scheme of photrio.com ("Rodinal 1:25 and 1:50 are completely different developers", "You should have developed 0:30 shorter", ...).

 

[Agulliver]

I used to do this 30 years ago in the school darkroom. As others have said, it leads to unexpected rendition of various colours in the final image contrast wise....but it can be done. I was mostly taking negatives shot at a BMX freestyle competition to make large B&W prints. Many were of a rider on a bike in the air backed by sky. I did have to make use of filters to prevent the sky being too dark. Luckily there weren't many red items. I did also try prints of people standing next to brick buildings which was more difficult.

It's not impossible but you may find you need to tinker a but before you get desirable results.

 

[Frank53]

The Heiland split grade controller has a setting for color film.
I don't do color much, but tried to print a color negative out of curiosity once and the result was surprisingly good.
So it can be done.
Regards,
Frank

 

[removed account4]

I do it from time to time, best thing to do is try it and see if you can get it to work. I've never used a color enlarger head so i don't know jack about
what settings to tweek your onboard filters.. have fun!

 

[etn]

Would creating an internegative (or rather, interpositive) on B&W film prior to printing be of any value here? (no idea, just asking out of curiosity)

 

[Rudeofus]

Would creating an internegative (or rather, interpositive) on B&W film prior to printing be of any value here? (no idea, just asking out of curiosity)

Yep, interpositive. This would be my plan if I ever went this route again. Note, that you have to use panchromatic material for this interpositive.