Making a color image with B&W film through analog means

[DREW WILEY]

For awhile maybe twenty years ago there was a simplified complete do-it-yourself color gum printing kit called Kwik Print. The results were less than spectacular in my opinion, and you still had to generate your own tricolor separation negatives; but it was affordable and easy enough to have been popular at one time.

 

[Aidan Sciortino]

Incidentally registered 35mm cameras were once a routine Nikon option marketed by AV supply houses, not generally by typical photo dealers. No doubt one of these could still be found if someone was determined.

It looks like determination + $1200 will do the trick;

https://www.japancamerahunter.com/product/nikon-f3-pin-register/

 

[DREW WILEY]

Bingo! That's just the tip of the iceberg. You'd still need to have matched registration in the enlarger carriers and a registration vacuum printing easel. It's far far easier to register large format sheet film anyway.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Those pin-reg Nikons were more for things like motion control work than in-camera separations - so that you could shoot (say) 24 frames forwards, go back 20, shoot another element on to 12 of those, etc etc with absolute frame-to-frame accuracy. A certain well-known SFX shop in the Bay Area used a great many such devices.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Those pin-reg Nikons were more for things like motion control work than in-camera separations - so that you could shoot (say) 24 frames forwards, go back 20, shoot another element on to 12 of those, etc etc with absolute frame-to-frame accuracy. A certain well-known SFX shop in the Bay Area used a great many such devices.

Seems to me they had a number of them converted for half frame (or smaller) as well, in order to shoot cine-compatible format with a camera that wouldn't fit into certain miniature sets...

 

[Lachlan Young]

Seems to me they had a number of them converted for half frame (or smaller) as well, in order to shoot cine-compatible format with a camera that wouldn't fit into certain miniature sets...

8-perf VistaVision was a popular SFX format for a long time - and is almost exactly the same gate as 24x36. Plenty of the pin-reg systems were likely sold for all sorts of very boring workaday photo-technical roles too - duping/ assembling/ titling slide shows and the like.

 

[Donald Qualls]

8-perf VistaVision was a popular SFX format for a long time - and is almost exactly the same gate as 24x36.

I'm specifically referring to Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, the mine car sequence. The camera used there was modified to shoot 35mm wide screen (matching the movie's aspect ratio, which was close to the 16:9 we see a lot now, wider than 4:3 half frame) with vertical film travel. It was stop motion, so the still camera worked fine, but it had to fit inside the miniature tunnels. Seems to me it was a magazine back, too, something like 240 full size frames (times at least two). Then again, that camera probably didn't need registration, the film was only fed through once and any matte shots were added in post.

 

[Lachlan Young]

I'm specifically referring to Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, the mine car sequence. The camera used there was modified to shoot 35mm wide screen (matching the movie's aspect ratio, which was close to the 16:9 we see a lot now, wider than 4:3 half frame) with vertical film travel. It was stop motion, so the still camera worked fine, but it had to fit inside the miniature tunnels. Seems to me it was a magazine back, too, something like 240 full size frames (times at least two). Then again, that camera probably didn't need registration, the film was only fed through once and any matte shots were added in post.

As far as I know, many of those ILM cameras were fully pin-reg, precisely so that you could go back & forth by specific numbers of frames (much cheaper to do compositing in-camera than in analogue post) for SFX motion control shots. And from all I've seen of that particular Nikon you refer to, It looks like it was running 8-perf horizontal, which has a projection gate very close to 1.85 flat widescreen & a near enough 24x36 camera gate. ILM were major users of VV for FX shots for a long time.

 

[Heath Moore]

It does tend to get forgotten that before register punches etc became commonplace, registration on the easel etc was done manually - often using a sketched master outline from one of the separations to align everything to. All that pin-reg did was speed up this step and make it readily repeatable. Definitely in the category of fiddly, but not impossible.

Yes indeed. In the printing trades we would include a registration target outside the image area to perfectly align the separation negatives. If I were tempted to experiment with RA4 l'd set up my still life with very distinct black and white targets at the image edges. Of course include objects with the primary colors, grey etc. Before going to the expense of a pin register system for the neg carrier I'd just make a high contrast b&W print of one of the negs. Then use that as a target to position each of the separation negs on the easel before exposing the color paper which has to be removed and replaced after each filter change. It won't be perfect but at least you will get an idea if you want to go further!

 

[Robert Maxey]

Those pin-reg Nikons were more for things like motion control work than in-camera separations - so that you could shoot (say) 24 frames forwards, go back 20, shoot another element on to 12 of those, etc etc with absolute frame-to-frame accuracy. A certain well-known SFX shop in the Bay Area used a great many such devices.

One does not need in-camera registration. One does need registration after that for three color work, and that is very easy to handle with a few readily available items..

Bob

 

[Lachlan Young]

One does not need in-camera registration. One does need registration after that for three color work, and that is very easy to handle with a few readily available items..

Bob

I was pointing out that those pin-reg Nikons weren't used for colour separation work, but for cinema SFX/ motion control work, which required the ability to move forwards and backwards by precise numbers of frames repeatedly.

 

[Robert Maxey]

I was pointing out that those pin-reg Nikons weren't used for colour separation work, but for cinema SFX/ motion control work, which required the ability to move forwards and backwards by precise numbers of frames repeatedly.

No, I understand you. I read about the Indiana Jones move in American Cinematographer,as i recall. Just pointing things out to those that wonder about when one needs pin registration.

Bob

 

[DREW WILEY]

Being able to quickly align title material onto a slide mount with registration pegs for sake of basic business slide show presentations was one intended application. Doing so-so unsharp masking for color printing with 35mm could also be done that way.
But actual registrations of color separation would ideally need something far more precise. That's what Technicolor cameras were designed to do. Post-registration manually over a light box is a recipe for insanity, especially with small and medium format originals. Yes, you can do it; but darkrooms aren't routinely built into padded cells.