Major differences between old linhof 150/265 lens and new 150 fuji?

harlequin · Feb 8, 2018

Dear APUG members,

Have currently a Linhof 150/265 convertible silver lens f5.6 and I am noticing the lower shutter speeds are sticking.
No complaint with the lens as it is used with both elements for mostly black and white work. Would it be more practical to:

a) purchase new multicoated 150mm from Fuji/caltar/Rodenstock
b) service the existing lens, since I rarely use the 265mm element, frankly I am not impressed with 365 performance..
c) Do the smaller pancake lenses with f6.3 perform just as well?
d) I don't do any major acrobatics with the bellows when shooting landscapes and old buildings
so interplanetary image circle is not that important to me...
e) Are the newer black copal shutters more reliable long term...?
f) I was contemplating going to a 210 plasmat but I like the FOV on my 150mm on 4x5.

Again, mostly shooting Ilford FP4 and HP5 in 4x5.

Please chime in, I can get a newer Fuji or Caltar 150 at a good price and would there be a benefit
in the contrast, sharpness, lens coatings etc.... Maybe if it was a Cooke or something I would invest in
a CLA, but these lenses are more common, and a 150 is reasonably priced on used market.....hence my dilemma.

Thanks for your input on this.....!!

Harlequin

E. von Hoegh · Feb 8, 2018

Have the Schneider serviced, unless the shutter is actually damaged, it will be better than any Copal. The convertible Symmars are very good lenses, I have used the exact same lens for about 30 years (on the Linhof it came with in 1959) for all types of film and have never wished for a 'better" 150mm lens. I always use a shade. A used lens may well require service, if not right away then sooner or later. The 265 focal length is best used with a green filter, and a small aperture, and be sure to check focus at working aperture; it's nice for b&w portraits and will do pretty well for landscapes.

fdonadio · Feb 8, 2018

Your problem lies within the shutter. Fixing the shutter would be the first option. The lens can still be used with another shutter if it can’t be fixed. So a new shutter would be your second option.

But... last time I checked, shutters were a little hard to find for a good price. I guess they were on the 80~100 USD ballpark. So, you might “save” some money by buying a new lens. I mean, you’d get a shutter and a lens for the a little more than the price of the shutter alone.

Flavio

removed account4 · Feb 8, 2018

anything that says linhof on it that is a schneider lens is what people sometimes
refer to as a "linhof select" lens. not sure if it is true or not ( probably is ) but linhof
usedto get first dibs / best lenses from schneider to put their name on. converted ( front element off )
there is focus shift so if you stop down make sure you re-focus... the schneider website has some info on your lens
it used to be under the info section now its here>> https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/faq/photography.htm
have fun

=== added later

might as well take it to a tech to have the lens cla'd
i have a 210/370, have had it for like 20 years and even
converted it is a great lens ( shoot bw+color chromes with it ). there is a lot of negative hype about
schnieder convertibles, some problem lenses might be not so hot
but some are stellar.
ive always wanted a 150/265!

E. von Hoegh · Feb 8, 2018

jnanian said:
anything that says linhof on it that is a schneider lens is what people sometimes
refer to as a "linhof select" lens. not sure if it is true or not ( probably is ) but linhof
usedto get first dibs / best lenses from schneider to put their name on. converted ( front element off )
there is focus shift so if you stop down make sure you re-focus... the schneider website has some info on your lens
it used to be under the info section now its here>> https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/faq/photography.htm
have fun

"Linhof select lenses" were just that, each lens was inspected and tested by Linhof to assure uniformity. The Zeiss lenses were all tested too, I wonder which had the most rejects?

Johnkpap · Feb 8, 2018

If you have the technical skills a shutter is not that hard to do a basic clean, there is a lot of info out there, I fixed a early Ikoflex TLR last week all it took was two drops of "lighter fluid" on the low speed gear train, it normally does not take a lot to fix a slow shutter.

Johnkpap

Sirius Glass · Feb 8, 2018

Have the shutter serviced. That way the use of the lens is preserved. In the future you or someone else may use to all the lens capability. After that, use which ever lens you choose. No one is making you choose and sell the other.

Arklatexian · Feb 8, 2018

harlequin said:
Dear APUG members,

Have currently a Linhof 150/265 convertible silver lens f5.6 and I am noticing the lower shutter speeds are sticking.
No complaint with the lens as it is used with both elements for mostly black and white work. Would it be more practical to:

a) purchase new multicoated 150mm from Fuji/caltar/Rodenstock
b) service the existing lens, since I rarely use the 265mm element, frankly I am not impressed with 365 performance..
c) Do the smaller pancake lenses with f6.3 perform just as well?
d) I don't do any major acrobatics with the bellows when shooting landscapes and old buildings
so interplanetary image circle is not that important to me...
e) Are the newer black copal shutters more reliable long term...?
f) I was contemplating going to a 210 plasmat but I like the FOV on my 150mm on 4x5.

Again, mostly shooting Ilford FP4 and HP5 in 4x5.

Please chime in, I can get a newer Fuji or Caltar 150 at a good price and would there be a benefit
in the contrast, sharpness, lens coatings etc.... Maybe if it was a Cooke or something I would invest in
a CLA, but these lenses are more common, and a 150 is reasonably priced on used market.....hence my dilemma.

Thanks for your input on this.....!!

Harlequin

Unless you plan to start shooting color, I would have the lens/shutter that you now own serviced and you would still be shooting a Linhof product which I think is something to consider. I am an old critter who is not sold on using multi-coated lenses for B&W as I don't see any real advantage there. .......Regards!

jtk · Feb 10, 2018

How large are you likely to print?

jim10219 · Feb 10, 2018

The new(er) 150/5.6 lenses are plasmats, just like the one you have. They also work as convertible lenses, but aren’t marketed as such because they don’t perform as well with just the one group of lens elements. And since large format users tend to be more concerned with sharpness these days than they were decades ago, manufacturers tend to ignore this feature presently so they don’t have to deal with user complaints. So I wouldn’t expect a drastic improvement by switching because likely the only difference is in the coating. Therefore, your cheapest option of having the shutter CLA’d is probably your best. Plus, a newer shutter may soon need servicing anyway, leaving you in the same boat.

I CLA my own shutters. It’s not rocket science, so it is something you can teach yourself. But it’s not for everyone.

Dan Fromm · Feb 11, 2018

jim10219 said:
The new(er) 150/5.6 lenses are plasmats, just like the one you have. They also work as convertible lenses, but aren’t marketed as such because they don’t perform as well with just the one group of lens elements. And since large format users tend to be more concerned with sharpness these days than they were decades ago, manufacturers tend to ignore this feature presently so they don’t have to deal with user complaints. So I wouldn’t expect a drastic improvement by switching because likely the only difference is in the coating.

Interesting if true. Unfortunately somewhat mistaken.

Convertible Symmars are first generation general purpose plasmat type taking lenses. They cover 70 degrees. They replaced the original Dagor type Symmars and, according to the VM, were only marginally better. They were in turn replaced by the Symmar-S, which covers 72 degrees and is generally agreed to be significantly sharper.

Rodenstock's Sironars had a similar development pattern. Jes' plain Sironar, 70 degrees. Sironar-N, 72 degrees. Sironar-S, 75 degrees.

Fuji offered a number of 150s. There's a 67 degree f/6.3 tessar type, an 80 degree plasmat type, and 76 and 73 degree six elements in six groups types.

The 150/5.6 Nikon is a 70 degree plasmat.

All of which is well and good but not much help to the OP. Since the OP is happy with what his convertible Symmar does, I agree with the advice already given that he should have its shutter overhauled and go on being happy.

jtk · Feb 11, 2018

Assuming this isn't your only lens... remove the lens element units, drip a little lighter fluid here and there into the shutter body, click it t until the lighter fluid has evaporated. See if this improves your low speeds...it probably will. This technique has been used forever by people who enjoy old lenses.

I've done this very successfully with old lenses. I was cautioned not to do it if the diaphragm isn't metal...and I've seen shutters like that.

I don't think "CLA" can be counted upon with old shutters. If you pay for the service, make sure you have guarantees.

DREW WILEY · Feb 12, 2018

Get a modern Fuji plasmat and you'll never look back.

E. von Hoegh · Feb 13, 2018

jtk said:
Assuming this isn't your only lens... remove the lens element units, drip a little lighter fluid here and there into the shutter body, click it t until the lighter fluid has evaporated. See if this improves your low speeds...it probably will. This technique has been used forever by people who enjoy old lenses.

I've done this very successfully with old lenses. I was cautioned not to do it if the diaphragm isn't metal...and I've seen shutters like that.

I don't think "CLA" can be counted upon with old shutters. If you pay for the service, make sure you have guarantees.

A proper overhaul of a shutter will assure it's usefulness for at least a decade or two. I use shutters over 120 years of age, properly serviced they are very reliable.
Lighter fluid is good if you want a non-fuctioning shutter that smells of Ronsonol.

removed account4 · Feb 13, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
A proper overhaul of a shutter will assure it's usefulness for at least a decade or two. I use shutters over 120 years of age, properly serviced they are very reliable.
Lighter fluid is good if you want a non-fuctioning shutter that smells of Ronsonol.

EXACTLY !!

E. von Hoegh · Feb 13, 2018

jnanian said:
EXACTLY !!

Arklatexian · Feb 13, 2018

jnanian said:
EXACTLY !!

EXACTLY is the word. I have always been told/taught that the lighter-fluid treatment is only useful if your shutter quits working while you are on your way to the camera/lens repairperson. You might can get one or two shots before the shutter quits again. And for gosh sakes, don't use WD-40. I ruined a perfectly good, sticky Compur shutter by spraying it with WD-40. Everything is OK now since Grimes mounted the lens in a new Copal shutter. I had two excellent repairmen try to get every trace of WD-40 out of that shutter and neither was successful. That is when I sent it to Grimes and Mr. Grimes put the lenses into the new shutter. No problems since........Regards!

MattKing · Feb 13, 2018

Lighter fluid is a good choice if your plan is to sacrifice the lens and shutter, rather than to rely upon it.

fdonadio · Feb 14, 2018

MattKing said:
Lighter fluid is a good choice if your plan is to sacrifice the lens and shutter, rather than to rely upon it.

I use it to degrease parts, but I prefer benzine.

DREW WILEY · Feb 14, 2018

WD-40 isn't good for much anyway; basically a junky home center product. I won't even use it for a door lock cause water gets beneath the film. Andy Griffiths would have saved his lighter fluid to add to his bourbon!

Dennis-B · Feb 15, 2018

Have the existing shutter CLA'd. I had a Graphex shutter CLA'd, timed and calibrated for around $100. Well worth the cost. Works like brand new.

Major differences between old linhof 150/265 lens and new 150 fuji?

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