Mailing photochemistry from Europe to other countries

Rudeofus · Mar 5, 2020

I would like to send some photo chemistry raw ingredients to a friend of mine who lives abroad. The compounds I would like to send are powders, neither strong oxidizers not reducers, not overly flammable or anything, no known pharmaceutic use, and also not overly toxic (think Dimezone-S, Citrazinic Acid, ...), but will not come in their original packaging.

I wondered, whether anyone has gone through this process. Can an amateur do this? Or should I just forget about it?

AgX · Mar 5, 2020

Who at the postal service would check for content? Remains customs authority if applicable.

grainyvision · Mar 5, 2020

I'm trying to do the same thing but within the US and covering one hazardous material (hydroquinone). Shipping regulations are insanely complex

37th Exposure · Mar 6, 2020

AgX said:
Who at the postal service would check for content? Remains customs authority if applicable.

At least in the USA, sending hazardous material by United States Mail will earn you a personal visit by federal agents. The restrictions have only gotten worse. I'd suggest any American choosing to mail photochemicals by post office to go to the USPS website and go to the very bottom of the page. Look for Postal Explorer and look for Publication 52 to start. Good luck when you actually try to explain it to postal clerks.

grainyvision · Mar 6, 2020

37th Exposure said:
At least in the USA, sending hazardous material by United States Mail will earn you a personal visit by federal agents. The restrictions have only gotten worse. I'd suggest any American choosing to mail photochemicals by post office to go to the USPS website and go to the very bottom of the page. Look for Postal Explorer and look for Publication 52 to start. Good luck when you actually try to explain it to postal clerks.

that’s why every chemical company ships through fedex or UPS

AgX · Mar 7, 2020

37th Exposure said:
At least in the USA, sending hazardous material by United States Mail will earn you a personal visit by federal agents.

But how will USPO will know of any violation? Only if a parcel breaks.

Over here I cannot find even any transport restrictions at the site of the major parcel service (DHL)
And I looked at their 115 pages booklet.

Rudeofus · Mar 7, 2020

37th Exposure said:
At least in the USA, sending hazardous material by United States Mail will earn you a personal visit by federal agents. The restrictions have only gotten worse. I'd suggest any American choosing to mail photochemicals by post office to go to the USPS website and go to the very bottom of the page. Look for Postal Explorer and look for Publication 52 to start. Good luck when you actually try to explain it to postal clerks.

That's a very good pointer! However, the legal text, including 18 U.S. Code § 1716 keeps talking about "hazardous materials", without providing an explanation, whether a specific compound falls under this classification. In theory rock salt could be deemed hazardous, eat enough and you die. What about p-Phenylenediamine? Is it hazardous? Can I go to Photo Formulary's web page and look, whether it says "ship via UPS ground only"?https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1716

Rudeofus · Mar 7, 2020

AgX said:
But how will USPO will know of any violation? Only if a parcel breaks.

Over here I cannot find even any transport restrictions at the site of the major parcel service.

Obviously random people may not ship pharmaceuticals to random people, and it will be difficult to ship concentrated Sulfuric Acid no matter who the sender and the receive may be. I would also assume, that postal service has means to automatically scan for explosives and probably some kinds of narcotics, too. Postal services will not help would be terrorists and drug dealers by providing detailed descriptions of their scanning methods.

My biggest fear is, that a mundane compound like Phenidone or Citrazinic Acid flashes some red lights, then they open my package and go "well it's not a drug, but he wasn't allowed to mail this either ... go get him".

Rudeofus · Mar 7, 2020

BTW I just checked Photo Formulary: Phenidone is restricted to UPS ground only, because it is a poisonous material. Dimezone-S is not listed as toxic, although it's quite a similar compound as Phenidone, and their MSDS use very similar language. Metol is also not listed as toxic ...

It looks like everyone shipping these compounds basically plays the lottery ...

AgX · Mar 7, 2020

Rudeofus said:
Obviously random people may not ship pharmaceuticals to random people.

Obviously not so. At least not over here. What makes you think the contrary?

grainyvision · Mar 7, 2020

AgX said:
But how will USPO will know of any violation? Only if a parcel breaks.

Over here I cannot find even any transport restrictions at the site of the major parcel service
And I looked their 115 pages booklet.

this is probably why the USPS doesn’t allow hardly any hazards to be shipped. Other carriers are free to random searches and opening of packages, but for USPS this act requires a warrant from a judge. (This fact is of course exploited for... nefarious proses) the fine for violating that for hazards though can be extremely steep, iirc $250K max fine.

And yes, the other posts hit the mail on the head regarding inconsistency. For instance, you can buy a film developer kit that includes 32g of hydroquinone from PF and ship it internationally by air, but you can’t do the same thing when buying 10g of hydroquinone as a raw chemical. Hydroquinone is special also because it is explicitly listed as a hazard in the transportation laws, unlike most other materials that just fall under a N.O.S. Category

I’m actually going to try to call them next week to get some insight on how they make these decisions and hopefully determine if my own developer kits containing HQ can be shipped by air with no warning labels (ie, without being classed as limited quantity)

Doremus Scudder · Mar 7, 2020

Rudi,

I think businesses that ship chemicals have license agreements with shippers. Those that ship internationally must have some kind of international license too. If I were you, I'd ask the people at Lotus View Camera what they have/need in order to ship the chemicals they do. Maybe they'll have a solution for you. They were always quite helpful when I corresponded with them about chemistry.

Best,

Doremus

Rudeofus · Mar 7, 2020

When it comes to HQ, there are special restrictions in EU. Some fools applied the HQ directly to their skin to make it appear brighter, and HQ is a known carcinogen. Therefore international shipping of HQ as raw ingredient may be forbidden, whereas shipment of a powder kit is not considered a problem. Apparently you can't easily make skin cream from D-76.

Mailing photochemistry from Europe to other countries

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