Mail ordering from USA to Canada ...

karthik · Jun 8, 2009

Question for Canadian APUG-ers who order film by mail from US:

I am thinking of ordering film from freestylephoto.biz, and have it shipped to Vancouver. I'm trying to find out how exactly much the import duty/taxes are for B&W film (rolls and 100ft). Shipping to Blaine/Pt.Roberts etc. south of the border is not an option for me - I don't have a US visa (and I am not Canadian). If any of you Canadians ordered film from the US, you might be able to answer this question.

I've tried looking through Chapter 37 of CBSA Customs Tariff document, but I am afraid I am unable to determine exactly which article describes a 100ft or 24 exposure roll of B&W film. (In case any of you have tried understanding this doc - do they fall under item 3702.32.00? Does 6.5% sound right for the customs tariff?)

Thanks --- RK

PS: I can't find anything in Vacouver as cheap as the Arista films - and I am wondering if with duty etc. it will work out cheaper than buying locally or not.

Sirius Glass · Jun 8, 2009

Call FreeStyle at their 800 number. They ship a lot so they may know.

Steve

Bob-D659 · Jun 8, 2009

US made film is not dutiable under NAFTA, ie, Arista Premium. Although you will likely get dinged for GST and PST. Have it shipped by the US Post Office, Canada Post will only charge $5 for brokerage fees, not the 20+ that UPS Ground will get you for. 30/70 odds the mail parcel will come thru with no fees, all depends.

johnnywalker · Jun 8, 2009

I've had better odds than 30/70. I've never been required to pay anything for paper and film shipped from Freestyle. Freestyle's shipping rate to Canada seems to have gone up recently though.

karthik · Jun 8, 2009

Bob-D659 said:
US made film is not dutiable under NAFTA, ie, Arista Premium.

Thanks - that's good to know! I guess that $25 Arista EDU and $18 past-date Fomapan might turn out costlier than I thought.

CRhymer · Jun 8, 2009

Hello,

I have never been charged duty on anything sent from Freestyle, or any other US seller when it was shipped by USPS to Canada. Freestyle includes detailed information on its packing slips about the country of origin etc., but it all comes through duty free no matter where it was manufactured. I have had similar experience to johnnywalker with the GST and handling fee. There is no PST in the NT, so it doesn't apply to me. I also buy machine tools, bits, end-mills, etc. from an American company. Most of these items are manufactured in China, and it says so on the shipping bill, but I have never been charged duty.

UPS, FedEx, etc are a different story. I have also imported some rather heavy items shipped by Bax Global and other companies where I had to use a customs broker, because I could not clear the items myself. Even when the items were manufactured in the US and both the seller and I provided all the NAFTA documentation and correct CBSA numbers, the brokers charged duty and a substantial fee to collect it, and classified it incorrectly every time. Their attitude is "you are not one of our regular customers, so take it or leave it." They don't want to be caught under charging and having to try to collect later and make up the difference. Also, postal rates have gone up in the last few years. I have got very good service from Freestyle, but of course the value of the dollar changes.

Cheers,
Clarence

Dennis S · Jun 8, 2009

I have orders from Freestyle shipped up here monthly. The shipping charge that Freestyle uses is a bit higher this month but not to any great extreme. I find if I make my orders higher than $ 130 CDN. it makes the shipping charge justified. Every once in a while (2X in 2yrs) customs aprehends your delivery and charge you about $25 extra dollars for their service. I have been trying to find a reason why this is done but I keep runing in circles. The PO doesn't have a clue WHY this is done it just IS. Now with the exchage rate so good (for us any way) it makes it easier to take. A order paid with CC takes 5 working days for the product to arrive in Beautiful British Columbia. It is actually cheaper to buy your chemicals locally. ALL my film and paper comes from south of the boarder.

Tabaliah · Jun 8, 2009

Items shipped from US to Canada are duty free, but not tax free. If the item is under 50$ CDN usually it will just slip in un-noticed - if over 50$ CDN and under 100$ or so, it may slip by un-noticed, but if over 100$ you will get charged 5$ CDN plus GST on the purchase value. DO NOT use UPS, they charge an outrageous fee for clearing customs. Another option (which I use for chemicals because Freestyle cannot ship many of them over the border) is to drop ship your items to Sumas (south of Abbotsford) or Point Roberts and cut across the line and pick it up yourself. Both places have street address shipping outlets (Ship Happens in Sumas) where you can have items shipped by courier for pick-up. If you go pick it up you will be charged both GST and PST on the item(s), but you will save the 5$ fee that Canada Post charges you

..michael

Dennis S · Jun 8, 2009

Yes that version of under X amount doesn't not seem to follow the rules of the road as far as Customs is concerned. One order was $75 I got dinged and another for $150 I got dinged. The last one was $200 and nothing happened. The nice part about Freestyle you can juggle your order around to get the delivery charge that is realistic to your needs. The customs is a open crap shoot you can NEVER tell until the order is a day late and you happen to NOT have the required change for delivery.

MattKing · Jun 8, 2009

When it comes to determining the duty rate, it is the country of origin that applies, not the country you purchase from. This means that if you buy Ilford film, the rules that apply to goods from the UK are the ones that are applied.

That being said, if your order comes from freestyle, there is a decent chance that:
1) the customs inspectors that are stationed at the post office may just let it through without charge; or
2) those same inspectors may just elect to charge the handling fee plus GST and PST.

I would hazard a guess that the decision to charge is based on three factors:
a) the value involved;
b) how "professional" or "commercial" the order might appear to be; and
c) what the workload is like at that time.

I find the greatest hassle to be the need to have exact change when it comes to your door!

Matt

thebanana · Jun 8, 2009

The truth is you will never know exactly how much it will cost to get stuff over the border, because enforcement of the rules is all over the map. However there is one thing for sure, UPS is the absolute worst way to have things shipped. Their "brokerage fee" would make a mobster blush. Freestyle will ship via USPS, which is a much cheaper way to go.

ricksplace · Jun 8, 2009

NEVER, under any circumstances, ship anything from the USA to Canada using UPS. UPS seems to take great glee in charging exhorbitant brokerage fees whenever they feel like it. I have been burned before. ($75 brokerage fees on a $200 order). I have never had any problems when goods were shipped by United States Postal Service (USPS). Since I live about 40 miles from the Can-US border, I usually ship to a US address, and drive there to pick it up, and declare it at the border on my return to Canada.

Most USA suppliers will ship by USPS if you request it.

karthik · Jun 8, 2009

Thanks everyoe for the detailed responses. Based on the experiences of people here, ordering film from Freestylephoto using USPS is definitely a viable option for me.

Re. the UPS/Fedex shipping nightmare - I have been gouged *very* badly once - so I know better than to ever use them for US-Canada shipping. There isn't a single thread related to US-Canada mail order on any forum where it doesn't come up.

mabman · Jun 8, 2009

Also, it might be a good idea to ask Freestyle if they can ship USPS to you or not - I haven't ordered from them recently, but at one time they said they could ship to some postal codes via USPS (including mine, thankfully), but others could only be serviced by UPS or FedEx. I have no idea why, and hope that has since changed

canuhead · Jun 9, 2009

I just ordered a boatload of premium, some jobo reels and as usual, I get dinged for the gst and pst and a small handling fee from Canada Post. That's it. No hidden fees. Easy to calculate your costs up front so if you budget for that and if it gets by tax free then bonus. They shipped USPS but offer Fed Ex if you're in a hurry, and it got here very quickly. The dollar is doing well right now so jump on it before it drops again.

timbo10ca · Jun 10, 2009

MattKing said:
I find the greatest hassle to be the need to have exact change when it comes to your door!

Matt

They take credit cards now

PhotoJim · Jun 11, 2009

There is no duty on film nor on photographic paper, irrespective of country of manufacture. So that is not a problem. You will, as discussed above, pay PST & GST.

Camera gear is also immune to duty. I was charged duty on a couple of lenses back in the mid-1990s but I have bought much gear from the US since and not paid duty on any of it. Again, you will pay taxes.

FedEx's brokerage charges are reasonable. UPS's are not if you use UPS Standard/Ground. UPS via air includes brokerage fees. I have gotten large film shipments from B&H shipped by FedEx or UPS (if it's summer I don't want them cooking in trucks for days so I get them sent overnight air) and not paid anything other than taxes.

DaveOttawa · Jun 11, 2009

ricksplace said:
NEVER, under any circumstances, ship anything from the USA to Canada using UPS.

Absolutely agree, if a shipper did send a shipment by UPS I would simply not receive it, it isn't worth it.

sly · Jun 11, 2009

PhotoJim said:
There is no duty on film nor on photographic paper, irrespective of country of manufacture. So that is not a problem. You will, as discussed above, pay PST & GST.

I paid a significant amount of duty on film sent from Germany a couple of years ago. I phoned to query it and was told I was lucky not to have been charged more. It seems to me it is a total crap shoot.

Anybody who works for Canada Customs on the site? Anyway to get actual information on what gets duty charged on it and what doesn't?

Decades ago there was a customs regulation that exempted "professional" equipment - which meant anything 4x5 or larger. I was living in Ontario, crossed the border to take advantage of a close-out sale and bought a 4x5 enlarger and all the darkroom gear to go with it. I spent about 4 hours at the border while they looked up the sub-section of the customs regulation and went through every piece of gear while I explained what each was for - microfocuser, contact frame, multicontrast filters - the lot. I wasn't charged duty and it was worth the time at the border to get set up with good gear. But I don't think it is worth it every time I want to order film, paper, chemicals or what-have-you. Can anyone quote the subsection we'd need to refer to when talking to an official who couldn't tell a film camera from a digital?

aluk · Jun 12, 2009

sly said:
Anyway to get actual information on what gets duty charged on it and what doesn't?

I do not work for Customs, nor am I sure if this is of any help given that I do not know the abbreviations. However, you may want to take a look at the following documents from CCRA/CBSA or whatever they are calling themselves today: film and cameras

sly · Jun 12, 2009

Thanks Aluk - I've glanced at it, and it scrambled my brain, but I'm tired. I'll save it and look at it when my brain is more functional.
I once called customs and asked them where I could find that kind of information and was told I'd have to phone them with the details of what I was ordering, and then they might be able to tell me. I was specifically told the information wasn't available over the web. As it took a good while listening to bad music and useless announcements to get that mis-information I have mostly ordered within Canada, or done without.

MattKing · Jun 12, 2009

I worked as a customs officer for Canada Customs in the mid 1980s. We didn't have computers - it was tough just getting pens that worked!

The customs tariff is a massive piece of legislation/regulation and it is a holdover from when it was the major source of revenue for the Canadian government (income tax, after all, was supposed to be temporary).

The materials actually used by the customs officers (in the 1980s) were actually commercial publications, because the legislation and regulations themselves are just too disorganized to enable finding anything.

Being legislation, they are awkward to work with.

There has been a concerted effort in the last 20 years or so to lower or eliminate many tariffs.

I looked (quickly) through the materials referenced and it seems to me that 35mm SLRs originating in any country that has MFN (Most Favoured Nation) status are shown as duty free, but medium format equipment attract a 5% duty. IIRC, Japan is MFN.

Don't rely on this opinion - my tariff reading skills are incredibly dated .

Matt

cmacd123 · Jun 15, 2009

I know that dealing with freestyle, they actually give you an invoice in the box which lists every item along with the tariff code and country of origin. Last box of film and paper and supplies I got from them, customs just listed as "cameras and parts"

karthik · Nov 5, 2009

Update: On an order (film & paper) from freestylephoto for about US$ 175, of which $60 was from the US and the rest from EU and Japan, I got charged taxes and no duty.

KWhitmore · Nov 5, 2009

ricksplace said:
NEVER, under any circumstances, ship anything from the USA to Canada using UPS. UPS seems to take great glee in charging exhorbitant brokerage fees whenever they feel like it. I have been burned before. ($75 brokerage fees on a $200 order).

Been there, done that, still bitter!

Mail ordering from USA to Canada ...

karthik

Sirius Glass

Bob-D659

johnnywalker

karthik

CRhymer

Dennis S

Tabaliah

Dennis S

MattKing

Moderator

thebanana

ricksplace

karthik

mabman

canuhead

timbo10ca

PhotoJim

DaveOttawa

sly

aluk

sly

MattKing

Moderator

cmacd123

karthik

KWhitmore

Mail ordering from USA to Canada ...

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