Maco/Efke IR 820c, any experience?

xtolsniffer · Jun 14, 2012

Hi all,
I just developed my first roll of 35mm maco/Efka IR 820. I'm reasonably familair with Kodak HIE, so wanted a replacement, my last roll of HIE still being in the freezer for a special day. I used a Cokin IR filter (89B equivalent) and exposed each scene as no filter at ISO 100, then each successive one as ISO 12, ISO 6 , ISO 3 and then ISO 1.5, all metered without the filter before putting the filter in place. The suggsted rating is ISO 6-3 for an 89B filter. The scenes were bright sunny days of objects in full sun. I developed in XTOL 1:2 at 16 mins at 20 C (again as recommended). The normally exposed shots without the filter are ok, but rather thin, I would say about a stop under, but the IR shots are barely there. There are a few very thin images for the ISO 1.5 metered shots. What are your experiences of this film? Are these ratings realistic?

Oh I should add that developer and fixer were fresh, just made up today.

oldfaithful58 · Jun 14, 2012

Hi,
I use this film in both 120 and 4x5. I develop in XTOL 1:1 in a continuous agitation JOBO rotary system for 8 minutes @ 20C. I normally use a Hoya R72 filter, which seems quite close to the Cokin IR. I bracket 5 stops, starting at ISO 3 and getting slower.... It is very difficult to judge how much IR light is present compared to the brightness of the visible scene. Sometimes I get just the right amount of IR and strong contrast at ISO 3 and then other times, it takes another 3 stops.

There are some samples in my gallery to give you an idea of what I get.

Hope this helps
Dave

Denverdad · Jun 14, 2012

For that filter (or similar) the ISO is really in the 1 to 1.5 range. I have had very good results using "sunny-16" technique, and that ISO value.

What were your exposure times? You have to take reciprocity failure into effect with this film, which starts in at about 1 second.

As for development, I use XTOL also, and go by the/temperature in the datasheet. The 16 minutes at 20C sounds familiar, but I thought it was 1:1 dilution rather than 1:2? Sorry, don't have the datasheet in front of me at the moment to confirm.

Jeff

Dave Krueger · Jun 14, 2012

I shoot Efke IR 8120 (35mm and 120) with a 720nm filter I bought off ebay. The best exposure I've used for a typical bright sunny day (where the sun is not obscured by a cloud), is 1/4 sec at f8. I don't know what EI that would equate to. I don't use a meter when I shoot IR. I just always shoot under very similar conditions around 10AM to 2PM during summer months only.

I develop in Xtol 1:1 for about 14 minutes (if I remember correctly). Temp is about 70F and agitation at 30 sec intervals. The negs come out a little more contrasty than I am normally used to, but I just stick with the same scheme anyway. Density is good -- maybe even a little on the over-exposed side.

I like the film, but I've seen quality problems with it in the past with one or two emulsion numbers. I have not had problems lately. I don't know how much different an 89B filter is from the one I use. I have never tried the film without the filter.

I don't know if this will be of any help, but I thought I'd just throw it out there for comparison purposes. Whatever the problem is, you don't seem to be doing anything drastically different from what I do. I advise that you make sure the sun behind you so your scene is almost entirely sunlit. The more foliage you have in your scene, the denser your negatives will look. Sky-lit shadows will tend to be (relatively) very dark because you're filtering out the blue light.

Denverdad · Jun 14, 2012

Yep, 1/4s at f/8 is the same exposure as 1s at f/16. ...so that would an EI of 1, based on your "sunny-16" conditions.
See it all makes sense!

Rhodes · Jun 14, 2012

Kodak manual for IR gives 1/25 at f/8 for distant scenes and 1s at f/22 or 1/10 at f/6.3 for near by scenes.

wildbill · Jun 14, 2012

Rhodes said:
Kodak manual for IR gives 1/25 at f/8 for distant scenes and 1s at f/22 or 1/10 at f/6.3 for near by scenes.

not sure what that has to do with this film, it's efke.

I shoot efke IR with an 89b as well. you're better off over exposing. if your meter tells you 1 sec, make it two. there are lots of folks shooting it, keep searching the forum or flickr for examples.

xtolsniffer · Jun 14, 2012

The maco datasheet gives 16 mins for 1:2 XTOL. I tend to used it 1:1 for other films, and the massive development chart seems rather variable for this film, giving 14 mins at 1+1 in one case, and 14 mins at 1+3 in another! I was using shutter speeds up to 1 second, so reciprocity failure shouldn't have kicked in yet. Looking at the (now) dry negatives, I feel that ISO 1.5 is really a starting point, and I should have taken another couple of frames at +1 and +2. I think next time I'll try 14 mins at 1:1. I have a roll of the Rollei IR film to try as well, it'll be interesting to compare them. I rather liked the mad effect of HIE, so the maco/efke looks closest, plus I can get it in 120 as well for my RB67, though bracketing like mad might only leave me with two scenes per roll!

Brian C. Miller · Jun 14, 2012

xtolsniffer said:
I used a Cokin IR filter (89B equivalent)

Your filter is too dark. The filters you should use are either Wrattan 29 (deep red), or B+W 092/Hoya RM72 (even deeper red, almost opaque, but still red). Don't bother with a 25A, as it's too light.

The 89B (Hoya RM90) is opaque, and the light it filters is beyond the film's designed response curve. It's fine for Kodak HIE/HIR, which was the best IR film.

wildbill · Jun 14, 2012

Brian C. Miller said:
Your filter is too dark. The filters you should use are either Wrattan 29 (deep red), or B+W 092/Hoya RM72 (even deeper red, almost opaque, but still red). Don't bother with a 25A, as it's too light.

The 89B (Hoya RM90) is opaque, and the light it filters is beyond the film's designed response curve. It's fine for Kodak HIE/HIR, which was the best IR film.

hmmm, not sure about the info you're providing. I have/used the b+w 092 for years (which IS an 89b) and the Cokin 007, also said to be an 89b.

https://www.google.com/search?q=B+W...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

xtolsniffer · Jun 14, 2012

The 89B (I think it's an R72 equivalent) should have a cut-off point from 680nm, and the film response curve goes up to 825, so there should be a little leeway there. The film datasheet lists the 89B as being +4 stops, rating it at ISO 6, which I think is a little optimistic!

Robert Hall · Jun 14, 2012

Brian C. Miller said:
Your filter is too dark. The filters you should use are either Wrattan 29 (deep red), or B+W 092/Hoya RM72 (even deeper red, almost opaque, but still red). Don't bother with a 25A, as it's too light.

The 89B (Hoya RM90) is opaque, and the light it filters is beyond the film's designed response curve. It's fine for Kodak HIE/HIR, which was the best IR film.

Brian,

If you use a lighter filter, such as the wratten 29, you will get very little IR look from efke if any at all, but the others are ok.

I rate mine at an asa of about 1/2 to get some shadow details and use a 750nm cut off filter.

Brian C. Miller · Jun 14, 2012

wildbill, Schneider Optics has changed their available literature, and the charts showing their filter responses isn't published any longer. The 092 is listed as "IR Dark Red," and the 093 is listed as "IR Black." Cokin filters equates their 007 to 89b, which B+H Photo Kodak 89b is listed as "Opaque Infrared."

Neal · Jun 14, 2012

Dear xtolsniffer,

I have used Efke IR820 in my Contax RTS and Mamiya 645E using a B+W 92 filter at EI 100 (Xtol 1+2, 13 minutes in Jobo) and it works very well. If there is a lot of foliage I will reduce the exposure by a stop but that is about it. I don't even bother to bracket anymore.

Neal Wydra

DWThomas · Jun 14, 2012

A couple of years back I came up with data that put the 89B filter at 695 nm cutoff which I would expect to be OK. I used the Efke IR820 with both 720 and 760 nm filters successfully. The 760 only took about one additional stop over the 720. The Rollei IR400 cuts off at shorter wavelength and is pretty tedious with the 760 filter. I used HC110 -- dilution E for the IR -- so I can't relate the results to XTOL.

RolleiflexLife · Jun 15, 2012

Hello,
the transmission curves of 92 and 93 filter are now on the "Industrial Filters" section of Schneider Optics website.

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/industrial_filters/pdf/IF%20Color%20Filter.pdf

Maco/Efke IR 820c, any experience?

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