M7’s shutter lag

[NB23]

Here you can see how quicker the winder winds the camera when it is on Mechanical mode.
As soin as it’s on auto mode, the M7 camera loses its speed thanks to its inherent lag.

 

[NB23]

The M7.
It has lag when on auto mode. As you can see here, the Leicavit loses about 50% of its speed when the camera is set on auto mode.
On mechanical mode, it becomes as fast as any other mechanical M.

This happened on all M7’s I’ve owned (3).

 

[Huss]

I just tested mine... by jove NB is onto something! How bizarre that it slows down using the motor winder!

Personally I think this is intentional from Leica..they are all like "Slow down Hans, this an M kamera! You haf to kapture der decisive moment, ja? Spray and pray are for Nikon users!"

 

[NB23]

I’m not onto something. I just know what I’m talking about.

 

[Huss]

I’m not onto something. I just know what I’m talking about.

Well to be fair, your initial comments were all about shutter lag with the auto speeds. It took you a while to work down to this level where you perhaps are the only person using Ms that would be effected.
Others would use a camera far more suited for high frame rate usage.

But that's ok, you use what works for you. Which begs the question, this obviously doesn't work for you hence your efforts to demonstrate it. So why are you tilting at windmills? There are a bazillion other cameras out there which are so much better than an M if you need rapid fire shooting.

 

[NB23]

I just tested mine... by jove NB is onto something! How bizarre that it slows down using the motor winder!

Personally I think this is intentional from Leica..they are all like "Slow down Hans, this an M kamera! You haf to kapture der decisive moment, ja? Spray and pray are for Nikon users!"

No, it’s rather a cheaper solution. Clearly cost cutting. Or at least, they relied on slow shooters.

You should have heard me (and my recomendations) to Leica when THE SLUGGISH M8 and M9 came out. M10 is a right step ahead.

 

[Huss]

No, it’s rather a cheaper solution. Clearly cost cutting. Or at least, they relied on slow shooters.

..

But it's weird that it does it. Wonder what the technical reason is? Cost cutting perhaps - but what was cut? The reality is the M IS for slower/more methodical use.
An F3 with the MD4 is so much better (same era) if you want an MD. Or the Leica R7. Or the R9 with the sweet sweet massive MD w rechargeable pack. Sure it is the size of a MF camera, but no MF camera has that frame rate.

A Nikon F80 etc for $40 does a better job than an M w Motor. If you want frame rate.

 

[NB23]

Well to be fair, your initial comments were all about shutter lag with the auto speeds. It took you a while to work down to this level where you perhaps are the only person using Ms that would be effected.
Others would use a camera far more suited for high frame rate usage.

But that's ok, you use what works for you. Which begs the question, this obviously doesn't work for you hence your efforts to demonstrate it. So why are you tilting at windmills? There are a bazillion other cameras out there which are so much better than an M if you need rapid fire shooting.

I don’t need rapid fire shooting. It’s just that with the M7 lag shows even in one single shot. It’s maybe unnoticeable at first, but the general feel is sluggishness.

I need a solid confirmation that the camera is ready when cocked: TAK. No wonder why the M3 started the legend, it felt so sure.

 

[maddoc2021jp]

Well, if you set the M7 to AUTO mode then AE locks with half pressed shutter. However, when using the motor, the shutter button recoils and you loose AE lock after the first frame. The camera will meter for every single frame that follows the first frame and measuring/computing shutter speed takes time even if lightning did not change.

 

[Craig75]

Because of crippling procrastination I decided to Google m winders and found this

"Leica M7 Exposure Lock Woes: Unfortunately, the M7’s exposure lock resets every time the film advances with a motor drive. Thus, if you have locked the exposure for shot number 1, the metering will reset as soon as the photo is taken. As explained below, this occurs with the newest Motor M as well. Most likely, Leica did not take this into account when designing the AE system on the M7"

Source: https://davidde.com/2020/01/18/the-leica-winder-m-1987-the-motor-winder-m-2000/

So maybe this is what causes lag?

And @maddoc2021jp has already the same thing but much more concisely so that was entirely pointless by me

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I can't see the videos. Must have been taken down. But I am curious, does the M7 have a shutter lag?

 

[NB23]

I can't see the videos. Must have been taken down. But I am curious, does the M7 have a shutter lag?

Sure it has.

 

[NB23]

Because of crippling procrastination I decided to Google m winders and found this

"Leica M7 Exposure Lock Woes: Unfortunately, the M7’s exposure lock resets every time the film advances with a motor drive. Thus, if you have locked the exposure for shot number 1, the metering will reset as soon as the photo is taken. As explained below, this occurs with the newest Motor M as well. Most likely, Leica did not take this into account when designing the AE system on the M7"

Source: https://davidde.com/2020/01/18/the-leica-winder-m-1987-the-motor-winder-m-2000/

So maybe this is what causes lag?

And @maddoc2021jp has already the same thing but much more concisely so that was entirely pointless by me

yes it resets, and this plays a role in AE mode.

But in this particular topic of M7 shutter lag, there is Lag even when the speed is manually set on any speed except the two mechanical ones (1/125 and 1/60).

Either in Auto-exposure or manual mode, there is lag.

At last, let’s not confuse “manual mode” with “mechanical mode”. On the M7, all the speeds are electronic even in manual mode, except two.

end of story.

 

[beemermark]

Well, if you set the M7 to AUTO mode then AE locks with half pressed shutter. However, when using the motor, the shutter button recoils and you loose AE lock after the first frame. The camera will meter for every single frame that follows the first frame and measuring/computing shutter speed takes time even if lightning did not change.

Correct answer. Years ago I picked up a used MD for my M7. Used in for one, maybe 2, rolls of film. Went in the box of useless photographic things and is probably still there.

 

[ic-racer]

The links are not working. Is it not too hard to just tell us the number?

 

[NB23]

The links are not working. Is it not too hard to just tell us the number?

what number?

I took down the down the ig videos because, frankly, my hands are not something I like to have posted on the web haha

 

[NB23]

I repeat: the M7 has lag, even in manual mode (not to confuse with Mechanical mode).

 

[NB23]

First of all, you are supposed to feel it because it’s there. But in case you do not feel it, that’s great: it means that you are not affected.

The motor winder, or a Leicavit, will amplify the problem to a point where it’s obvious.

- with Leicavit: on a mechanical speed (1/60 and 1/125) you can wind on endlessly at about 2.5-3 frames per second. If set on any other speed, your winding will soon block unless you decide to wind at a 1-1.5 fps rate.

-motor/winder: same as above. The winder/motor will get slowed down naturally by the camera’s lag, if the camera is set on any non-mechanical speed.

 

[Huss]

I just tested mine... by jove NB is onto something! How bizarre that it slows down using the motor winder!

Personally I think this is intentional from Leica..they are all like "Slow down Hans, this an M kamera! You haf to kapture der decisive moment, ja? Spray and pray are for Nikon users!"

Re-visiting this one last time.. My M7s do not have any shutter lag. Both will take pictures as quickly as I can push the shutter button. What DOES lag is the motor winder at higher speeds. It slows down the film advance.
As I don't care for the motor winder none of this matters in my usage. The moment I push the shutter button, the camera takes a pic. No lag.

NB23's needs are different. He wants to be able to shoot as quickly as possible with his winders, and sees this issue which I have confirmed when using my motor winder.

 

[ic-racer]

what number?

The lag time you measured. Or maybe I don't know what this thread is about.