Lured by large negatives...

Stephanie Brim · Mar 26, 2008

...I come seeking the wisdom of those who have gone before me.

In other words, I'm getting a Crown Graphic.

I have a few questions I'm pretty sure you guys can answer quite well for me. Being a complete newbie and all, I'm looking mostly for recommendations.

1. When making your own dark cloth (I'm pretty good with a sewing machine, you understand), what is the best fabric to use, and what should it be lined with?

2. What are your enlarger recommendations?

3. What's the longest lens possible to use with this camera?

4. Also, what's the shortest?

That's about all I can think of for now. Book recommendations are good as well...I'll be looking into a few to buy soon.

phfitz · Mar 26, 2008

Stephanie,

1) whichever machine washable fabric you like, it doesn't need to be lined.
2) I think the 15"/ 381mm Tele- Optar is the longest, nice lens.
with 'normal', non-tele lenses, about 10" / 254mm
3) I think you can go down to 65mm with a recessed board and drop the bed.

Have fun with it.

Wayne R. Scott · Mar 26, 2008

Read here Steph:

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/features.html#TopRangeFinder

If you are still in Iowa I can give you an old Kodak 4x5 enlarger as a starting point, but I am not sure it is complete. I got it with a complete portrait studio auction that I won.

Wayne

Pinholemaster · Mar 26, 2008

Stephanie

You'll have a lot of fun with the Crown. I have for years. Making your own darker cloth! One side should be black and the other white. The white side will reflect the heat away in the summer. Some people sew small weighs into each corner, such as a metal washer. This helps keep the corners down when a light breeze happens.

If you can find a 90 mm with a focusing cam, that's a sweet deal for wide angle.

Stephanie Brim · Mar 26, 2008

You won a complete portrait studio? How the heck did I miss THAT one?

Yeah, still in Iowa. I'll PM you soon. I may end up with a D2 later on, but the Kodak would work until I can get the other.

Stephanie Brim · Mar 26, 2008

Oh, and another thing. I was looking at Jobo tanks and this is how stupid I am about this...

The 25xx series of tanks and reels are what I want, right?

snallan · Mar 26, 2008

Stephanie Brim said:
Oh, and another thing. I was looking at Jobo tanks and this is how stupid I am about this...

The 25xx series of tanks and reels are what I want, right?

Yup. The 25xx series tanks, with the 2509n reels.

There were recommendations that the original 2509 reels only be used with four sheets of film for even development, though I cannot comment on this. I have only used the 2509n reels, which have baffles that fit on the outside of the reels to improve solution flow when used on the rotary processors. Though if you are doing manual procesing, this probably does not matter!

As far as enlarger recommendations go - I love my De Vere. It is big. It is solid. It is an absolute delight to use. However, I should think any 4x5 enlarger you can find will be good. I think building any enlarger of that size encourages a manufacturer to build a quality machine. (I do like having the neg stage height, and focussing controls on the baseboard though - very convenient!).

Stephanie Brim · Mar 26, 2008

Well, four sheets is more than I could get done in one tray. I'm worried about even doing one. I know that if I don't use a tank I'll most likely scratch my first negatives all to heck and back.

cotdt · Mar 26, 2008

a 4x5 enlarger is huge! my friend had to punch a big ugly hole in his ceiling to fit it in his darkroom. i recommend a scanner instead, and print via digital inkjet. i prefer silver gelatin prints but for large format it's simply not convenient.

and don't use a tank or reel, just use a tray. i always got uneven development with anything other than a tray for sheet film.

Konical · Mar 26, 2008

Good Evening, Stephaine,

If you've previously skipped over the several threads on sheet film developing, you might do a Forum search on the topic. I won't repeat the details of what I've already posted previously, but give some serious thought to using a simple color print drum (Chromega, Unicolor) on a motor base for your film processing. No scratches, no problems, flawless, evenly-developed negatives at minimal equipment cost.

Konical

Stephanie Brim · Mar 26, 2008

My main issue is finding the motor base. I'll have to go looking. Would work well for prints, too, I suppose...but I really wanted to do trays with those because I want to see the image come up. Cliche?

drpsilver · Mar 26, 2008

26 Mar 2008

Stephanie:

You will have lots of fun working in LF. I have been using the Jobo 2509n reels for many years and have found that even though they will accommodate 6 sheets of film, I would recommend only loading them with 4 sheets (using only the outermost and innermost tracks). I, and several of my colleagues, have found that if you fully load the reel it increases the possibility of non-uniform development because of restricted flow patterns.

As for books, I found Steve Simmons book "Using the View Camera" (or a title similar to this) very instructive when I was learning the fundamentals of LF.

Good luck and have lots of fun.

Regards,
Darwin

Ole · Mar 26, 2008

cotdt said:
a 4x5 enlarger is huge! my friend had to punch a big ugly hole in his ceiling to fit it in his darkroom.

It doesn't have to be. There are 4x5" enlargers which are no larger than some MF enlargers, and even my 5x7" enlarger fits comfortably under a normal ceiling.

and don't use a tank or reel, just use a tray. i always got uneven development with anything other than a tray for sheet film.

B*llsh*t. I use JOBO tanks for all sizes from 6.5x9cm (and 135 and 120 rollfilm) to 12x16", and get perfectly even development every time. Much better than I've ever got from tray development.

I won't even comment on the bit I didn't quote - this is APUG!

Stephanie Brim · Mar 26, 2008

Darn right, Ole. I'll put my enlarger on the floor if I have to.

snallan · Mar 26, 2008

Oooh! And as far as book recommendations go -

"The Photographers Master Printing Course" by Tim Rudman
"Creative Black and White Photography" by Les McLean
"The Master Photographer's Toning Book" by Tim Rudman
"Way Beyond Monochrome" by Lambrecht and Woodhouse
Various books by Roger Hicks and Frances Schultz

Also check out the articles on the Unblinking Eye site

Konical · Mar 26, 2008

"because I want to see the image come up."

Stephanie--with panchromatic film you can't do that anyway. Tray processing, except for ortho or blue-sensitive-only films, has to be done in complete darkness. I admire those who can do it successfully, but, for me, drum processing is lots simpler. Motor bases go be almost nothing on E-Bay.

Konical

John Kasaian · Mar 26, 2008

1. Crowns have a built in shade so a dark cloth isn't so critical--a thick black t-shirt should do the trick for you. If you want to make a dark cloth, one side would traditionally be white. Why? It reflects light keeping you cooler in hot weather and makes you more visible on dark days (so you don't get run over) is what I've been told.

2. An Omega D-II or D-2 (same enlarger basicaly) is what I'd recommend. Any 4x5 would work but the D-2 is so "period"

3. How close will your subject be? I'd feel comfortable with a 203mm, 210mm or perhaps even a 215mm.

4. It should handle a 90mm just fine.

Check out www.graflex.org it is the "holy of holies" for all things Graphic

For books, start with Steve Simmons 'Using The View Camera" For something specific to your camera, scrounge the thrift shops for a copy of Graflex Photography by Morgan and Lester---- look for one from the 1950's/60's that will have your Crown covered.
Have fun!

Stephanie Brim · Mar 26, 2008

Trays for prints, not film. Trust me...I'm not going for the Most Scratched Negative Ever award here.

snallan · Mar 26, 2008

Stephanie Brim said:
Darn right, Ole. I'll put my enlarger on the floor if I have to.

Quite right!!

My 507 fits nicely in the garage; but if I had to, I would happily punch a hole in any ceiling to accomodate it now!

Ole · Mar 26, 2008

BTW - your point #4: My 4x5" Anniversary Speed Graphic handles a 80mm WA Rectilinear just fine, on a flat lens board with an iris mount on it (which adds a few millimeters of extension). The Crown should work fine with even shorter lenses, but I don't know just how short.

snallan · Mar 26, 2008

Stephanie Brim said:
My main issue is finding the motor base. I'll have to go looking. Would work well for prints, too, I suppose...but I really wanted to do trays with those because I want to see the image come up. Cliche?

Jobo do a roller setup for manual processing with minimal volumes of processing solutions, costs about 20 quid (about 30 - 40 ish dollars).

Indeed, for processing film using staining developers (Pyro/Pyrocat), this is probably a good solution, as the rotation speeds for minimal aerial oxidation of the developers is quite slow.

In fact, when I am travelling, I process 5x7 film in a Jobo 2840 print drum, just rolling the drum on a normal kitchen work surface - no need for any additional equipment.

keithwms · Mar 26, 2008

Stephanie, the longest lens I've used on a crown is the Nikkor 360 T*ED.

The Nikkor 65 can be used with various tweaks but not comfortably. I guess I use my Schneider 90/8 on the crown more than anything. That is my "plentywide" lens.

Enlarger? Who needs one, have fun making contacts for a while.

I use a combiplan for 4x5 sheets... no problems as yet. If I'm doing something a bit iffy like infrared then I just do sheets one at a time in a tray.

If you really wanna go nuts, you can fit the binocular viewer from an old polaroid MP camera to your crown, I have one such gizmo. Heavy as hell but fun.

If you are brand new to bellows focusing and movements and all that then I very strongly recommend investing in a Fuji PA45 bavck and some 4x5 fuji instant film. Very useful and hey the prints are gorgeous.

Enjoy it!

drpsilver · Mar 27, 2008

26 Mar 2008

Stephanie:

Another point to remember when doing rotary processing. Try to incorporate some sort of periodic axial mixing of the tank. If you do not there is the possibility of streaking where the developer has formed laminar flow patterns on the negative. Several of my colleagues have noticed this even if the rotation direction is reversed periodically.

Enjoy processing some big negatives. Once you see the results on paper you will be "hooked" on LF.

Regards,
Darwin

Nick Zentena · Mar 27, 2008

cotdt said:
a 4x5 enlarger is huge!

Some are. See my CB7.

Some are more MF sized. See my Durst 1000.

There is a big spread in size.

If you're going to put the Jobo tank on a motorbase then get at least the 2551. Don't go bigger then the 2581. You'll notice I only list the ones ending in 1s. You want to avoid the cog lid ones. They end in a 3. You can change the lid on any but the ones with the red rubber top are better if you don't have a processor.

So for smaller volume get the 2551. If you need to process lots of sheets get the 2581.. The 2561 is hard to find. Just a little bigger then the 2551.

argus · Mar 27, 2008

drpsilver said:
Another point to remember when doing rotary processing. Try to incorporate some sort of periodic axial mixing of the tank. If you do not there is the possibility of streaking where the developer has formed laminar flow patterns on the negative. Several of my colleagues have noticed this even if the rotation direction is reversed periodically.

Darwin,

if you put enough solution in the tankt, that will not happen, at least it doesn't with my negatives.

G

Lured by large negatives...

Stephanie Brim

phfitz

Wayne R. Scott

Pinholemaster

Stephanie Brim

Stephanie Brim

snallan

Stephanie Brim

cotdt

Konical

Stephanie Brim

drpsilver

Ole

Moderator

Stephanie Brim

snallan

Konical

John Kasaian

Stephanie Brim

snallan

Ole

Moderator

snallan

keithwms

drpsilver

Nick Zentena

argus

Lured by large negatives...

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