Lumen prints and salt as a fixer

nascarfann · Jul 21, 2019

Would it be possible to make a lumen print, and use table salt to fix it?

bsdunek · Jul 21, 2019

I don't think NaCl would convert the silver halides to a soluble form. The Lumen print would darken more over time.

BAC1967 · Jul 21, 2019

I have used salt to fix film, it works but it’s a slow process. I discussed it in this thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kitchen-cupboard-fix.160631/#post-2090458

nascarfann · Jul 21, 2019

BAC1967 said:
I have used salt to fix film, it works but it’s a slow process. I discussed it in this thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kitchen-cupboard-fix.160631/#post-2090458

Thanks for the information, do you think this would work on a lumen print? Did you ever try it on paper?

koraks · Jul 21, 2019

Theoretically it should work marginally better on paper due to the lack of I- in the emulsion itself, provided you use a saturated solution of non-iodated table salt (I think that's what they call kosher salt in the US?) However, since a print is generally/necessarily more exposed to light than a negative, any remaining silver complexes will print out faster, darkening the image.
Obviously, actual fixer would be a better idea, although this will severely bleach a lumen print so you will have to overprint by a huge margin to retain an image. But I assume that in your experimentation mode you really don't want to use a proper fixer.

nascarfann · Jul 21, 2019

Thanks for the insights. My lumen print is soaking in salt water and I will post back in 24-48 hours when it is finished. Any reason why the print smells so bad? It smells similar to the old pre-impossible polaroid reagent, though stronger.

MattKing · Jul 21, 2019

The salt solution may do more to stabilize the print than to actually fix it. By stabilizing it, and subsequently minimizing light exposure, you may be able to delay fixing until a later time, without sacrificing eventual longevity.
This may be useful while traveling.

nascarfann · Jul 21, 2019

koraks said:
Theoretically it should work marginally better on paper due to the lack of I- in the emulsion itself, provided you use a saturated solution of non-iodated table salt (I think that's what they call kosher salt in the US?) However, since a print is generally/necessarily more exposed to light than a negative, any remaining silver complexes will print out faster, darkening the image.
Obviously, actual fixer would be a better idea, although this will severely bleach a lumen print so you will have to overprint by a huge margin to retain an image. But I assume that in your experimentation mode you really don't want to use a proper fixer.

It is looking quite bleached out and paler than an IPA in the salt solution!

NedL · Jul 21, 2019

christislord said:
Thanks for the insights. My lumen print is soaking in salt water and I will post back in 24-48 hours when it is finished. Any reason why the print smells so bad? It smells similar to the old pre-impossible polaroid reagent, though stronger.

If it got warm when you were exposing it, sometimes you can smell the formaldehyde or similar used to harden the gelatin. I've never tried to fix a lumen in salt and will be interested to hear what happens and if the print is stabilized or fixed. I've fixed them in sodium and ammonium thiosulfate and sodium and potassium thiocyanate, and all four of those caused substantial "bleaching" and color changes.

BAC1967 · Jul 21, 2019

christislord said:
Thanks for the information, do you think this would work on a lumen print? Did you ever try it on paper?

I never tried it on paper, just a few times on film.

removed account4 · Jul 22, 2019

christislord said:
Thanks for the insights. My lumen print is soaking in salt water and I will post back in 24-48 hours when it is finished. Any reason why the print smells so bad? It smells similar to the old pre-impossible polaroid reagent, though stronger.

fumes might not be good, i hope you have ventilation,
a concentration of bad fumes will make you see your maker earlier than planned.

Michael Meacham · Jul 26, 2019

I agree with Koraks. In Alternative Photographic Processes, Christopher James calls for Kosher salt because of the Iodine in table salt. Most grocery stores carry it.

NedL · Jul 27, 2019

In my earlier post I should have written that I've tried ammonium thiocyanate ( not potassium ) and fixed the lumen print but not without color shifts.
It's possible that silver bromide is more soluble in a solution of ammonium chloride than in sodium chloride; you could look that up and see.

nmp · Jul 27, 2019

Kosher salt can sometime have an anti-caking agent that might leave residue - should check the ingredient list to make sure. Otherwise pickling salt is a better bet that contains nothing but sodium chloride, probably cheaper too.

Lumen prints and salt as a fixer

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