Low Odor Chemistry

[bbinboulder]

Just finished my new darkroom after a 25 year layoff. I'd forgotten how skanky EK black and white fixer is to work with. Now I just can't stand the stink!

I am using Ilford HP 4 film and RC paper. Apparently the film does not require a hardening fixer which should help with the smell issues.

I am searching for a low-odor fixer formula that I can compound myself from dry chemicals rather than buying pre-made wet stuff in a jug. Any suggestions?

On other fronts, looks like the vinegar and water solution should work nicely for the stop.

 

[Marc .]

Hello,

Have a look here, you will find fixer recipes (among others) :

http://www.jackspcs.com/fixer.htm

Marc

 

[Marc .]

More sites with formulas :

http://www.digitaltruth.com/data.html
http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Developers/Formulas/formulas.html
and of course here in APUG :
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Marc

 

[ann]

Sprint chemistry, as close to odless as i have found and they are a good product.

 

[Gary Holliday]

Just finished my new darkroom after a 25 year layoff.

I am using Ilford HP 4 film

 

[removed account4]

Sprint chemistry, as close to odless as i have found and they are a good product.

!!

and some of their chemistry smells like vanilia.

 

[tomasis]

I'd would be nice if we put up more names of such chemicals. As far I know there are Sprint and Tetenal fixers (odourless ones). Fixer 6a (adams version) looks interesting. I have recently replaced kodak max stop with Tetenal odorless one. Regarding smell, it made difference for me. I print in badly ventilated room btw.

 

[dancqu]

No Odor Fix.

I am searching for a low-odor fixer formula that I can
compound myself from dry chemicals rather than buying
pre-made wet stuff in a jug. Any suggestions?

On other fronts, looks like the vinegar and water solution
should work nicely for the stop.

Sodium thiosulfate may be described as a dry fixer
concentrate. I use it unadulterated, very dilute, and
fresh mixed at processing time. Dan

 

[Tom Kershaw]

In what is now my second darkroom, I have no real issue with excessive smell from ILFORD HYPAM fixer. I suspect good ventilation is the key.

 

[Ole]

... Regarding smell, it made difference for me. I print in badly ventilated room btw.

Same here, which is why I came up with OF-1.

 

[fschifano]

It's the acetic acid that makes stop bath and fixer smell what some people call bad. In the case of stop bath, it's a vinegar smell. In fixers, the acid eventually breaks down the thiosufate and releases a sulfurous odor. There are a couple of ways to get around this. For the stop bath, you can use a product based on citric acid, which is odorless, rather than acetic acid. Only fixers with incorporated hardening agents need to be acidic, and these days a hardening fixer is rarely, if ever, needed. So using a neutral fixer that doesn't smell is a no-brainer.

There is one stop bath made by Ilford that is based on citric acid. I forget the name, but browsing through their web site's product catalog will turn it up. For fixers, there is Kodak's C-41 process Flexicolor fixer and replenisher. Despite its moniker, it hass off label uses. It works perfectly fine for B&W processes, better I think, than most B&W specific fixers, and has no smell. Oh yeah, and it's a heck of a lot less expensive than the boutique stuff.

 

[Trevor Crone]

If you don't find what you are looking for from formula. I would certainly recommend Fotospeed's odourless fixer, FX30, also their odourless stop bath, SB50.

 

[R W Penn]

Check out Clayton Chem Co. in Calif.

 

[tomasis]

ole, tell me more about of-1

there are a lot to try. I typed "odorless" in freestyle and the list of products popped up. Anyone knows of Arista powder of fixer?

it seems that Tetenal is only odorless fixer I found in Europe. Ordering some chemicals from retrophotographic is another way.

Silvergrain chemicals look much interesting especially when they are less toxic, more "green". Ryuji wrote somewhere that their products will be shipped in Europe year 2009. Is there way to get one of those this current year 2008 in europe?

 

[Ole]

OF-1 is a "rapidised" sodium thiosulfate fixer with ammonium chloride added, and the pH adjusted for minimum odor. I don't like the smell of ammonia either.

The recipe is in (surprise!) the recipe section here in APUG.

 

[JPD]

OF-1 is a "rapidised" sodium thiosulfate fixer with ammonium chloride added, and the pH adjusted for minimum odor.

Which makes ammonium thiosulfate and sodium chloride. You know that, of course, but some maybe prefer pre-mixed low odor rapid fix.

 

[tomasis]

I found out that Ilford Rapid Fix which I use now, contains ammonium thiosulfate. So OF-1 contains same thiosulfate plus sodium chloride, according to JPD?

 

[tomasis]

Jpd, do you mean that those prefer premixed because they are lazy or is it something else like as to make explosions in the room?

 

[JPD]

I found out that Ilford Rapid Fix which I use now, contains ammonium thiosulfate. So OF-1 contains same thiosulfate plus sodium chloride, according to JPD?

Correct. I think the old recepies for rapid fixers used sodium thiosulfate plus ammonium chloride because they were easier to find (or cheaper) in powdered form than ammonium thiosulfate, during the first half of the last century.

Jpd, do you mean that those prefer premixed because they are lazy or is it something else like as to make explosions in the room?

Well, since fix can't explode, I guess they/we are lazy. I buy pre-mixed fix, but mix my developers and stop myself. The fixer doesn't affect image quality as much as developers do.

 

[Ole]

Which makes ammonium thiosulfate and sodium chloride. You know that, of course, but some maybe prefer pre-mixed low odor rapid fix.

Well, I know enough to know that they don't. Make ammonium thiosulfate and sodium cloride, that is.

In a solution you will have hydrated ammonium, sodium, thiosulfate, monohydrogen thiosulfate and chloride ions. What dry chemicals you choose as a starting point to get these ions in the solution is irrelevant, so you might just as well start with ammonium thiosulfate and sodium chloride - and quite a bit extra sodium thiosulfate, since there's nowhere near enough ammonium chloride in my recipe to equal the amount of (sodium) thiosulfate.

 

[smith]

Try Zone VI fixer from Calumet. It has no odor, and I'm told that is similar to the Kodak F-6 fixer that must be mixed from individual chemicals. I've used it for years with good reselts.
Bill

 

[dancqu]

[QUOTES=Ole;674533]
"Well, I know enough to know that they don't.
Make ammonium thiosulfate and sodium cloride, that is."

The two salts dissolve in water. They dissociate becoming
anion and cation; sodium, ammonium, thiosulfate, and chloride.

"In a solution you will have hydrated ammonium, sodium,
thiosulfate, monohydrogen thiosulfate and chloride ions."

And even more at any one instant as some of the
compounds are polyprotic.

The chloride and sodium play no part in dissolving
silver from the emulsion. Dan

 

[JPD]

Well, I know enough to know that they don't. Make ammonium thiosulfate and sodium cloride, that is.

In a solution you will have hydrated ammonium, sodium, thiosulfate, monohydrogen thiosulfate and chloride ions. What dry chemicals you choose as a starting point to get these ions in the solution is irrelevant, so you might just as well start with ammonium thiosulfate and sodium chloride - and quite a bit extra sodium thiosulfate, since there's nowhere near enough ammonium chloride in my recipe to equal the amount of (sodium) thiosulfate.

When I think about it, sodium chloride in water separates to Na+ and Cl- ions. I think I remembered Eder wrong, when I thought he wrote that sodium thiosulfate plus ammonium chloride makes ammonium thiosulfate. But I think you will agree if I say that it's just like having ammonium thiosulfate in the fixer?

 

[srs5694]

there are a lot to try. I typed "odorless" in freestyle and the list of products popped up. Anyone knows of Arista powder of fixer?

If you're referring to Arista Premium Odorless Powder Fixer, then I've used it. It's less nasally offensive than some fixers, such as Kodak's powdered hardening fixer; however, it's based on sodium thiosulfate (without ammonium compounds to rapidize it), so it takes longer to fix than I like. This isn't a big deal for me when developing film, but I hate sitting at a fixer tray for several minutes when making prints. Over the course of a single printing session, the extra time can turn into a lot of minutes pretty quickly compared to, say, TF-4. OTOH, TF-4 has a strong ammonia odor. Kodak's C-41 fixer is fast and has a pretty mild odor, but I've never used it for B&W paper, so I'm not sure how quick it is for that application.

 

[iamzip]

I use freestyle's arista rapid fixer - comes powdered, low odor.