low light with no flash

ongakublue · Aug 20, 2015

Hi guys

A couple of novice questions I think here. So I would like to shoot indoors with tungsten light or maybe some window light depending on the time of day. No Flash. I have been using film that is asa 100. I assume I can buy more light sensitive film and this yields better results? I mean 400, for example. Sorry if I misunderstand it Also during the developing which I give in somewhere to be done. Should I ask them to 'push' it higher? I have read about this.

Thanks a lot!

J

John Bragg · Aug 20, 2015

For first timers, Ilford XP2 would be ideal. It has huge flexibility and can be exposed between Ei 200 and 800 with no loss in quality. It is essentially a mono film using colour technology. Any 1 hour lab can process it and print just like colour film with no need to push.

fotch · Aug 20, 2015

The word "Better" can mean a lot of things. Nothing wrong with the 100 speed film, shoot with a tripod and cable release, and use an exposure meter.

Gerald C Koch · Aug 20, 2015

Many years ago this was a common problem. Films were slow. There are faster films that you should investigate. The other thing would be to increase the amount of light. Do things such as replacing light bulbs with ones with greater output. Use wider lens apertures and slower shutter speeds. It is fairly easy to shoot handheld at 1/30 sec if one is carful. Tuck your elbows in, take a deep breath, exhale and squeeze the shutter gently. A tripod or beanbag can also help.

It is better to use a faster film than to push a slow one. Not what people normally think of as pushing but Kodak states that 400TX (Tri -X) can be exposed at EI = 800 and developed normally to produce good images.

Paul Howell · Aug 20, 2015

Kodak still makes 200, 400 and 800 speed film in 35mm, this is daylight balanced, to shoot under artificial lights you need a color correction filter. A few labs like Blue Moon will push a film for an additional charge, you can push color 1 to 2 stops, grain becomes an issue with high speed film like the 800.

You can also buy Kodak movie film that has had the ram jet backing removed allowing the film to processed in standard color chemistry. Cinicfilm offers a 800 tungsten balanced film that can pushed to 1600 to 3200, I have not shot this film so I don't how well it will push. Freestyle, B&H, and Ultrafine sell it, on my list to try just have not gotten around to it. I believe this is the only tungsten balance film on the market, but is only balanced for tungsten, not for florescent or for matter don't know how it will respond to LED.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 20, 2015

I agree with John and fotch,use XP2 or what you have with a tripod and you'll be fine

ciniframe · Aug 20, 2015

John Bragg said:
For first timers, Ilford XP2 would be ideal. It has huge flexibility and can be exposed between Ei 200 and 800 with no loss in quality. It is essentially a mono film using colour technology. Any 1 hour lab can process it and print just like colour film with no need to push.

"Any 1 hour lab....."
Ah, there is the problem. The 1 hour lab has disappeared from most geographical locations. I would venture a guess that more than 95 percent of them have closed. Besides, the op had not indicated whether he is thinking of B&W or color. Even with B&W you really want to learn to do your own unless you have the money and wait time to send it off to a lab, with color of course ISO 800 is available and it is likely that the op would have to send it through the mails unless he is fortunate to live close enough to a lab. If so, then color or XP would indeed be the easiest to shoot.

Now that I think of it a survey on how many members live within, say 20 miles of a C-41 lab would be informative. I'd bet 80 percent of forum members don't.

RobC · Aug 20, 2015

ongakublue said:
Hi guys

A couple of novice questions I think here. So I would like to shoot indoors with tungsten light or maybe some window light depending on the time of day. No Flash. I have been using film that is asa 100. I assume I can buy more light sensitive film and this yields better results? I mean 400, for example. Sorry if I misunderstand it Also during the developing which I give in somewhere to be done. Should I ask them to 'push' it higher? I have read about this.

Thanks a lot!

J

everyone is assuming you are talking about B+W film but you haven't said B+W or colour. Which do you mean.

The assumption is your subjects are static. If they are moving, i.e. people then slow shutter speeds ain't likley to be the answer and it doesn't matter how still you can hold the camera if the subject is moving.

so we need more information, B+W or colour and static or moving subjects.

But as a generalsation you will need faster film speed and/or wider apertures.

And if its colour and you have tungsten light then you need tungsten balanced film and/or filters to help with colour balance unless you don't mind odd coloured results.

Alan Johnson · Aug 20, 2015

Assuming B/W film speed 400 ISO my tungsten room light gives typically 1/60 f2 at EI =800.
My method: set the on camera EI to 800 , shoot at f2 and say to push 1 stop.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 20, 2015

J,

If you have capable smart phone, get exposure meter app for it.
At least one is available for free for iPhones.
It shows you the real view of what you are measuring.
You will learn with it in no time about ISO, aperture and shutter speed photography without flash under low light.

Once you'll learn the basics with it, read about the incident light and how to measure it.

Cheers, Ko.

ongakublue · Aug 20, 2015

RobC said:
everyone is assuming you are talking about B+W film but you haven't said B+W or colour. Which do you mean.

The assumption is your subjects are static. If they are moving, i.e. people then slow shutter speeds ain't likley to be the answer and it doesn't matter how still you can hold the camera if the subject is moving.

so we need more information, B+W or colour and static or moving subjects.

But as a generalsation you will need faster film speed and/or wider apertures.

And if its colour and you have tungsten light then you need tungsten balanced film and/or filters to help with colour balance unless you don't mind odd coloured results.

OK good questions. I want it for portraits. I realised that slowing the shutter speed very low won't work handheld. I am not using a tripod. The people will be still not moving. I would prefer B/W actually. I have a 50 1.4 and a 50 1.7 to play with. Thanks

BrianShaw · Aug 20, 2015

Tough conditions. Buy the fastest film you can find and learn to love grain!

RobC · Aug 20, 2015

ongakublue said:
OK good questions. I want it for portraits. I realised that slowing the shutter speed very low won't work handheld. I am not using a tripod. The people will be still not moving. I would prefer B/W actually. I have a 50 1.4 and a 50 1.7 to play with. Thanks

A 400 ISO film should be good then if you keep aperture as wide as you can realistically. 50mm lens is good for half to full length portraits but will work closer. An 85 1.4 would be good for head and head and shoulders shots.

Ilford delta 400 is good film as is HP5 and I'm sure people will chime in with Kodak 400 speed films too.

If you don't try and keep background sharp and aim for selective DoF to get just your subjects sharp then providing they are in reasonable light you should be OK.

If the lighting is low contrast then you can push the film one stop. i.e. use EI 800 (with 400 speed film) and tell the lab it's a one stop push. But be careful where you have people too close to windows and window is in shot becasue that can be very high contrast. So essentailly you need to consider the lighting contrast to decide whether its best to push or not. Pushing will increase negative contrast and hence print contrast which is a good thing if subject is low contrast but not a good thing if subject is high contrast.

RobC · Aug 20, 2015

Also if you find you're still struggling with shutter speeds which are too slow then you can try some Ilford Delta 3200 but you need to get this developed the right way for it to work well. Preferably using 120 format film but with 135 format it should be OK too.

With Perceptol use EI 800 and develop in Perceptol Stock for 21minutes @ 20deg C

With DDX use EI 1600 and develop in DDX 1+4 for 18 minutes @ 20 deg C

Delta 3200 will be more grainy than the 400 speeds films but with Perceptol it should be OK. DDX is grainier than Perceptol.

Both of the above will give you relatively normal film contrast but I would try with 400 speed film first if you can.

No faster films will give the fineness and smoothness of 100 films if that is what you were wanting.

ongakublue · Aug 20, 2015

Great thanks a lot for all that info. Will investigate it.

mexipike · Aug 20, 2015

Delta 3200, Ddx at 1600

Enjoy the grain! I do!

cliveh · Aug 20, 2015

RobC said:
everyone is assuming you are talking about B+W film but you haven't said B+W or colour. Which do you mean.

The assumption is your subjects are static. If they are moving, i.e. people then slow shutter speeds ain't likley to be the answer and it doesn't matter how still you can hold the camera if the subject is moving.

so we need more information, B+W or colour and static or moving subjects.

But as a generalsation you will need faster film speed and/or wider apertures.

And if its colour and you have tungsten light then you need tungsten balanced film and/or filters to help with colour balance unless you don't mind odd coloured results.

My response is N/A as OP already responded.

RobC · Aug 20, 2015

cliveh said:
N/A

well we know that now

Chan Tran · Aug 20, 2015

If the subject doesn't move or even if the subjects are people who can hold relatively still I would simply use a tripod, cable release and slow shutter speed. If I have to shoot handheld I simply give up and go to the dark side.

John Koehrer · Aug 20, 2015

Assuming indoors with typical lighting like table or floor lamps, even window light. Don't include the light tin any light readings you make. You will underexpose because the camera sees too much light. Also if you want detail on the camera side of the subject don't have lights behind it/them.

Xmas · Aug 21, 2015

Studio style lighting for movie style shots is difficult you will need to try a lot unless you are real good.

If you have good hand control you can shoot at 1/15 and get a % reasonable.

A clamp, monopod or tripod is better.

Xp2 and home process is best, you can shoot at 1600 ISO if you print yourself and don't mind digital noise.

Otherwise Tx at 400, if you push forget shadows.

AlexMalm01 · Aug 21, 2015

Personally, I really enjoy Delta 3200 for these situations. Grainy, but beautiful.

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low light with no flash

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