Low humidty: Need moister envrioment to dry negs in?

peter k. · Sep 20, 2016

Problem ~ Stabilizer Spots: Low Humidity Negs drying to fast
One solution, in a dry climate, is that one places the drying negatives in a bathroom setting where the shower has been run, hot, to create a moister environment for the negs to dry in.
Trouble is my development space, is in the camper located many yards from the bathroom, which makes it awkward to travel with a 36 exposed roll of 35mm film that many yards through obstructions and then through the house. By doing it in the camper I can leave everything set up until we use it.
So Tried this solution .. but yuck.. with wind blowing it starts to dry even faster then when left hanging in the camper!
I know some of you use a squeegee, looked in to it, and some do and some don't, but trouble is it takes the stabilizer off.. so not for me.
Next...
Been thinking of making a cabinet, that somehow could put some moisture into it. Look at drying cabinets on e-bay but their for a moister environment.. I need to slow the drying time down!
Has anybody done a work around for this?
Love to hear your thoughts...

Jim Noel · Sep 20, 2016

I haven't heard of anyone using stabilizer in years.
I suggest you get some LFN, the best wetting agent, and make it the last step in your process. Pour the last rinse with LFN into the tank and take the tank into the house where you hag your film. This will cause some agitation along the way, which is good. Hang the film with a clip at top and bottom - the shower is a great place to do so. DON'T WIPE IT - let the LFN do its job of sheeting off the water. It should dry with no streaks or spots regardless of RH.
Good luck

sfaber17 · Sep 20, 2016

I'm not convinced the humidity is related to your drying spots. It can affect the extent of curl. I take my wet reels in the drum upstairs to the bathroom and then dip the reels in the stabilizer, then hang them, all in the clean moist bathroom. Then I take a kimwipe or filter paper and soak up any big drops on the shiny side to avoid spots there. If you use the powder kit stabilizer, then you may be in for more difficulty.

sfaber17 · Sep 20, 2016

Jim Noel said:
I haven't heard of anyone using stabilizer in years.

Remember, this is the color film topic.

RichardJack · Sep 20, 2016

Hi,
This is the first time I'm hearing about a low humidity problem. I use a Honeywell film drier that uses a silica gel canister and forced air to dry the film. It is extremely low humidity. I use Photoflo with all films then turn the stainless reel on it's side and blow any loose water out using canned air. There are no drops on the film by the time it goes into the drier to leave a water mark. I haven't had a problem in over 20 years.
My film drier was $15 on Ebay.
Rick

bvy · Sep 20, 2016

Ditch the stabilizer and get Kodak Final Rinse. It's cheap and it works. Do not use LFN or Photo-Flo on color film.

sfaber17 · Sep 20, 2016

bvy said:
Ditch the stabilizer and get Kodak Final Rinse. It's cheap and it works. Do not use LFN or Photo-Flo on color film.

OK, good idea, given that formaldehyde isn't that cheap and goes bad quickly it seems and photoflow is supposed to be bad for plastic reels. (I'm talking about the homemade stabilizer.)

peter k. · Sep 20, 2016

bvy said:
Ditch the stabilizer and get Kodak Final Rinse. It's cheap and it works. Do not use LFN or Photo-Flo on color film.

Well the kit was Arista color neg kit.. 1 Quart.. so the stabilizer is part of the kit... although I seem to be getting more into color, so thinking of changing .. but does this Kodak final rinse acts like a stabilizer?

sfaber17 · Sep 20, 2016

[QUOTE="peter k., post: 1834971, but does this Kodak final rinse acts like a stabilizer?[/QUOTE]
Yes, but it doesn't work with old films that require a formaldehyde stabilizer like Kodak gold.
It also must have a wetting agent, maybe photoflow not sure.

bvy · Sep 20, 2016

peter k. said:
Well the kit was Arista color neg kit.. 1 Quart.. so the stabilizer is part of the kit... although I seem to be getting more into color, so thinking of changing .. but does this Kodak final rinse acts like a stabilizer?

Not a traditional formalin-based stabilizer, but modern color emulsions don't require it. It does contain a wetting agent. I even reuse final rinse several times, and don't have a problem with drying marks. And the humidity levels in my base range from very dry to very humid depending on the season.

peter k. · Sep 20, 2016

bvy said:
Not a traditional formalin-based stabilizer, but modern color emulsions don't require it. It does contain a wetting agent. I even reuse final rinse several times, and don't have a problem with drying marks. And the humidity levels in my base range from very dry to very humid depending on the season.

Ok.. but then you must be using the Kodak group of chemicals that don't come in a kit to do your processing.. most likely the kodak flexicolor chemicals?
I've thought of changing, and getting out of Blix.. but when I look into these.. I just don't do that much color to warrant the cost, and to be frank... what seems to be needed, changes with the people who recommend it.
Very confusing!
Is there somewhere you can buy it, as a 'chemical pack' put together, out of its individual items?

mklw1954 · Sep 20, 2016

I use Unicolor and drying marks are prevented by adding 1/2 teaspoon of PhotoFlo concentrate to 1 liter of stabilizer, and repeat every 8 rolls.

bvy · Sep 20, 2016

peter k. said:
Ok.. but then you must be using the Kodak group of chemicals that don't come in a kit to do your processing.. most likely the kodak flexicolor chemicals?
I've thought of changing, and getting out of Blix.. but when I look into these.. I just don't do that much color to warrant the cost, and to be frank... what seems to be needed, changes with the people who recommend it.
Very confusing!
Is there somewhere you can buy it, as a 'chemical pack' put together, out of its individual items?

There's no kit or package, but Unique Photo sells and ships all of the chemicals required -- four pieces to be exact. They work for me, and others here will testify that they work for them. Kodak doesn't market these for home use, so, yes, it can be confusing. Other people are doing different things, and that's great. I know that this works though. You'll probably have to copy and paste the links.

C-41 Developer Replenisher ($13.95)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/c-41-dev-repl-lorr-tm-5l-ek-kodak-xhaz-hazsp1-832-0608-8231672/

C-41 Developer Starter ($13.00)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-c-41-dev-starter-lorr-1-2l-6601074/

Separate Bleach and Fix ($34.00)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/...sing-unit-f2-for-color-negative-film-1173319/

Final Rinse ($2.95)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-flexicolor-sm-c-41sm-tank-final-rinse-1925254/

That said, you can buy just the final rinse and use it to supplement your Arista kit if you like. I would ditch the stabilizer entirely.

peter k. · Sep 20, 2016

Hmm.. well more confusion ~ from a Kodak flyer on tank development
http://125px.com/docs/chemicals/kodak/cis211-Flexicolor_in_small_tank.pdf
printed in 2005 it states: (BTW your links do not work)

KODAK FLEXICOLOR Developer—
To make 1 U.S. gallon, CAT No. 192 7698
KODAK FLEXICOLOR Bleach III—
To make 1 U.S. gallon, CAT No. 894 0801
KODAK FLEXICOLOR Fixer and Replenisher—
To make 1 U.S. gallon, CAT No. 156 5175
KODAK FLEXICOLOR Final Rinse andReplenisher—
To make 5 litres, CAT No.867 3170

Is this out of date.. or ???

bvy · Sep 20, 2016

The links work, but they're not clickable here. Something Sean needs to investigate or fix. You need to copy and paste them.

I don't know where you got the 125px link, but it doesn't apply to the products I posted. There are instructions for mixing the developer directly on the bottles themselves.

peter k. · Sep 20, 2016

Ok.. so the developer and replenisher are two items sold together?

bvy · Sep 20, 2016

No! Don't let the terminology confuse you. There's "developer replenisher" and then there's "developer starter." The developer replenisher is a small box with three bottles marked A, B, and C. Mix according to the instructions, and you'll get 5 liters of developer replenisher. The starter is one bottle. There are instructions for making a starter dilution (with water) of about 1.5 liters. Add this to the developer replenisher, and you'll have 6.5 liters of working solution developer. Don't try to mix smaller quantities. Again, the directions are on the packaging itself.

sfaber17 · Sep 20, 2016

peter k. said:
Is this out of date.. or ???

Yes, way out of date. They don't make those any more.
The data on bvy's list of chems. is in the SM chemicals notes z101 which I can't get to now.
The processing times are in the z131_03.pdf under the C41-RA section.

peter k. · Sep 20, 2016

bvy said:
Separate Bleach and Fix ($34.00)
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/...sing-unit-f2-for-color-negative-film-1173319/

separated out to:
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/...sing-unit-f2-for-color-negative-film-1173319/

Is not linking...

bvy · Sep 20, 2016

peter k. said:
separated out to:
http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/...sing-unit-f2-for-color-negative-film-1173319/

Is not linking...

Infuriating. Try this:
xxx.uniquephoto.com/product/kodak-flexicolor-sm-c-41sm-processing-unit-f2-for-color-negative-film-1173319/

Change the xxx to www when copying and pasting.

peter k. · Sep 20, 2016

That worked...
Thank you.. I'm getting temped.. after having done some of this for the last couple of years, usually just in the spring, and haven't like Blix concept.. and it diminishing the longevity of the developed images that it could effect in latter years.
This method, sold separately.. out of a kit... and no dang trouble making, sticky, icky stabilizer, it sure seems there would be more freedom..
Hmmm.. well going to sleep on it...
Thanks again!

(Yeah and I notice that my subscription has run out, this is a great site, will have to re-up)

mts · Sep 21, 2016

My humidity runs normally 5-10% (on most days) and I will always get drying spots unless I squeege the film immediately. I use photo-sponges damped with stabilizer and then squeezed out, and run them along the film on both sides and then weight the film to dry. Films are usually dry in 10-20 minutes for both B&W and color. I have not had any problem with scratches, ever. Stabilizer penetrates the emulsion and serves mostly to inhibit bacterial growth. There is no benefit to leaving excess on the film while it is drying.

peter k. · Sep 21, 2016

mts said:
Stabilizer penetrates the emulsion and serves mostly to inhibit bacterial growth. There is no benefit to leaving excess on the film while it is drying.

Yah, are humidity here is a little higher, and BTW say hello to me old birthing ground... Dad was down at Alamogordo, stood up and took a picture, and got knocked on his ass. Later got back at Los Alamos, made whoopie mit me mom, and I pop out nine months later.

I'm beginning to understand color developing a little more doing this research, and believe I misunderstood the statement about using a squeegee and that it would not allow the 'sealing' process to take place. But if you dampened it first, ... makes sense.
So your using a sponge and of course cleaning thoroughly after use, that's an easy way to take care of those darn spots.
My method I use with the stabilizer, is I carefully take the roll of film out of the reel, and with the emulsion side in, and held by the two ends, insert the roll of film into a separate jar, that I have poured the stabilizer in, and slowly, 'wash' it going up and down.
Keeps the reels clean from getting gummed up.
Do the same thing with B&W and its photo flow.

sfaber17 · Sep 21, 2016

peter k. said:
My method I use with the stabilizer, is I carefully take the roll of film out of the reel, and with the emulsion side in, and held by the two ends, insert the roll of film into a separate jar, that I have poured the stabilizer in, and slowly, 'wash' it going up and down.

I did it that way too at first and it attracted a ton of dust, so now I'm taking my chances with the reels and don't re-use any stabilizer.

bvy · Sep 21, 2016

A few things I'll add: Kodak Final Rinse also contains agents that prevent bacteria growth. Also, I soak the reels (plastic and stainless steel) in the final bath, and then rinse them vigorously in very hot water afterwards. See-sawing/wiping/squeegee-ing wet film is asking for trouble. Whether it's the Kodak product or a kit stabilizer, the final bath needs to do it's job without any help. Adding Photo-Flo to kit stabilizer might work, but I haven't tried it.

Low humidty: Need moister envrioment to dry negs in?

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