Low contrast C-41 film

Checking to see if there is a better suggestion for 120 sized low contrast color film (c-41 color neg) than Kodak Portra 160nc and 400nc? Portra is a great film, but I sometimes miss having the lower contrast "minus development" option I did with black and white film.

Just because words can get confusing: I'm talking about shooting high contrast scenes and wanting a lower contrast film to not "blow out" highlights or "blockup" shadows.

Thanks,
Tom

Can't you pull with C41?

yes you can

So why not expose 400NC at 160 and pull? Or does pulling C41 not have the same effect?

You might simply experiment with exposure changes first, C-41 is already "low contrast", adding a stop or two of exposure will open up the shadows more. The highlight detail normally hangs in really well.

You don't have the same choices as B&W for contrast control when printing though.

Instead you will probably just need to burn in the light areas to get the details/colors you want.

You've gotten good suggestions already, to these I would add preflashing, that might be worth a try.

For scenes with a lot of range, for which I want accurate colours, I use fuji pro h. I've never been disappointed by the level of detail across the range, just with normal rating and processing. (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Thanks everyone for the help and comments. I'm not souping the c-41 and my local lab doesn't do c-41 pull processing. Might get that if I drove into Hollywood, but that is a long drive (I'm in far far Northwest Los Angeles). At the risk of not being "analog" enough..... these are being shot on film, developed by a lab, the film is scanned by me (Epson 700) and then digital negs are made for gum printing or gum over palladium.

I will play more with overexposed highlights (basing the exposure on the shadows only). Perhaps it is my scanner or scanner settings that are blocking up high (very high) contrast scenes.

Thanks,
Tom

Vision films (motion picture) are very low contrast compared to the traditional C41 films. You will need to have it correctly processed though. That should be easy in the LA area.

PE

Is motion picture film still available for still use? If so where can I get it? I used to love the results from Signature films.

IDK. Some companies used to offer Vision films in 35mm cassettes and processing.

PE

I'm using Portra a lot these days and my answer is its definitely your scanner that's the weak link as Portra is a really versatile film that can me scanned 'flat' or contrasty as long as exposed correctly.....overesposed always....I shoot 160NC at 100asa and the 400NC at 320asa and I find I have a lot of range all over the curve......

I have a high quality drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) and I scan at 16-bit and depending on the curve i want to give it get flatter or more contrasty picture

A good test would be to send the film in question to a good lab like Richard Photo Lab I hear about in LA all the time and ask them to do a test for you based on what you think the film is not giving you...ie more range in the highlights and the shadows.....ask them to give you a 'flat' scan with maximum detail all over the place.....

Tomf2468 said:

Thanks everyone for the help and comments. I'm not souping the c-41 and my local lab doesn't do c-41 pull processing. Might get that if I drove into Hollywood, but that is a long drive (I'm in far far Northwest Los Angeles). At the risk of not being "analog" enough..... these are being shot on film, developed by a lab, the film is scanned by me (Epson 700) and then digital negs are made for gum printing or gum over palladium.

I will play more with overexposed highlights (basing the exposure on the shadows only). Perhaps it is my scanner or scanner settings that are blocking up high (very high) contrast scenes.

Thanks,
Tom

Click to expand...

markbarendt said:

You don't have the same choices as B&W for contrast control when printing though.

Click to expand...

Unless you deviate from standards.

Tomf2468 said:

Thanks everyone for the help and comments. I'm not souping the c-41 and my local lab doesn't do c-41 pull processing. Might get that if I drove into Hollywood, but that is a long drive (I'm in far far Northwest Los Angeles). At the risk of not being "analog" enough..... these are being shot on film, developed by a lab, the film is scanned by me (Epson 700) and then digital negs are made for gum printing or gum over palladium.

I will play more with overexposed highlights (basing the exposure on the shadows only). Perhaps it is my scanner or scanner settings that are blocking up high (very high) contrast scenes.

Thanks,
Tom

Click to expand...

Set you levels manually, open up your white level.

If I can do it on my V500 (with normally developed C-41 film, not my mad experiments some times..) then you can on your V700, either that or the lab is overdeveloping.

MartinCrabtree said:

Is motion picture film still available for still use? If so where can I get it? I used to love the results from Signature films.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can buy 400ft cans of 35mm motion picture, there's a nice ebay supplier in Canada where it's significantly cheaper than from normal stock suppliers, 50D from them is only 1000ft though iirc, though its only a couple hundred. I've got some 500T which I can rewind into a 35mm bulk loader by spinning the bulk loader spool/core with my fingers

Athiril said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by markbarendt (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

You don't have the same choices as B&W for contrast control when printing though.


Unless you deviate from standards.

Click to expand...

My point was that B&W papers are are available in grades and VC, that option isn't really available with color unless you don't care about color balance. :rolleyes:

So, I guess my question is "how might you suggest that we deviate from standard and get a reasonable result?"

Athiril said:

Set you levels manually, open up your white level.

Click to expand...

Please take the digital lessons to hybrid photo or pm's or some such thing, it's off topic here.

markbarendt said:

Please take the digital lessons to hybrid photo or pm's or some such thing, it's off topic here.

Click to expand...

No cigar, it's of relevance to the OP so it's not off-topic, and anyone who google's and finds this thread, there is nothing worse tha finally finding relevant info something only to find the issues never answered or resolved.

It was a small mention, I'm not going to self-censor and omit information, if it's offensive to your eyes than skip my posts

markbarendt said:

My point was that B&W papers are are available in grades and VC, that option isn't really available with color unless you don't care about color balance. :rolleyes:

So, I guess my question is "how might you suggest that we deviate from standard and get a reasonable result?"

Click to expand...

There are plenty of ways to correct colour in colour printing, you could do something fancy such as send the enlarger light through a pair of dichroic beam splitters (dichroic prism), have a function of reducing these separate light intensities and recombine them.

Filter the backlight.

Build your own backlight out of red, green and blue LEDs that are dimmable with pulse-width modulation circuits to be able to dial in colour.


When I develop C-41 in Rodinal, and fix, bleach and re-develop in E-6 colour developer, bleach, fix, etc, only green-mask compensation is needed, using C-41 then gives orange mask negs as normal.


There is also the ability to dilute C-41 and process for longer, which has been explored lightly on flickr and gives varying results.

I've also been experimenting with making a highly dilutable (1+100) 20 degrees celsius colour negative developer, that works in stand and semi-stand for an hour at 1+100.

I've had varying degrees of sucess:

(top film, bottom digital reference)


Trying to get the right negative contrast at 20 c is something I'm still working on, in fact it needs a lot of work.

In short, its up to your own ingeniuity to come up with solutions to problems, instead of just accepting the status quo, if we all did that, humanity would never have made any progress.

And yes I probably should buy a full colour chart, but this does the job for what I need for the time being.

Athiril

Color control isn't the issue, contrast is.

Now as to your assertion to digital being on topic.

Welcome to the Analog Photography Users Group, Founded 2002

APUG.ORG is an international community of like minded individuals devoted to traditional (non-digital) photographic processes.

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There is an exception for scanning finished work for display in APUG galleries.

The discussion here doesn't seem to fit that criteria.

Then do not bother bringing up colour if it's not the issue.

It's on topic to a reply to the OP, if you have a problem with that, it's the OP's post you need to shut down. I refuse to censor myself on your account of having a problem with my replies when trying to help someone.

Contrast of negative's I've re-developed with Rodinal havent had any issue, the negative contrast is about the same as normal processed negs.