Loosening Up Stiff Joints - Horseman 970

[Stephen Power]

I've just bought this lovely old Horseman 970 technical camera from Japan. It was made around 1965 and I reckon some of the parts have not been used since 1975.

The back standard, for example is very difficult to release and I feel like I'm going to break something every time I try to open it.

Does anyone have any tips on how and if I should lubricate an old camera and get the parts that should move, move more freely?

 

[ic-racer]

Do you mean the springs that hold the back in place? I think they are tight so the back does not pop out inadvertently during transport or while folded. After releasing the springs, the 4 rods should freely move in and out. Is that the case?
Maybe try pressing the rods from the front.

 

[Stephen Power]

Do you mean the springs that hold the back in place? I think they are tight so the back does not pop out inadvertently during transport or while folded. After releasing the springs, the 4 rods should freely move in and out. Is that the case?

Thanks for the reply. Yes, that's it. The rods are fine, once I get the back open. But it's the metal catches in the middle at each side that are really stuck. They seem to be in pristine condition, but the sides are very hard to pries open. I'm fairly sure I'm pulling in all the right places and the retaining knobs are loosened. It's the 'releasing the springs' part that is puzzling me. I don't seem to have worked that bit out.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Depends on how far in you want to go. Ideally, you disassemble and take metal polish to parts to clean off surface dirt and corrosion. Be sure to clean the inside surface of bearings and slide barrels, also, like where the extension slides slide through. pay attention to any possible adjustment points- keyways, small screws that tighten or loosen a joint, setscrews, etc. be very deliberate and studied if you start messing with these.

Without disassembly, I like a combination of naphtha/lighter fluid wipe down. Work the assembly if needed. Then add very small amounts of a fine oil. I use a very small #00 or smaller, painter's brush. Work the assembly. then use lighter fluid on a cotton swab to clean the area, remove extra oil. This also thins the oil and gets it a bit deeper.

Not sure what Ireland has in oil brands and types. In he US, Tri-Flo is about as heavy an oil I would use, and that is only for larger mechanisms. 'Sewing Machine oil,' trumpet valve oil?

Go light on the oil, be sure to work parts after any flushing and lubing. Best to do this, and plan on doing a final cleaning after the camera sits over night. Pay attention over the next few weeks to see if joints seep oil. Wipe up, wipe down if needed. You are in a duel, between the way oils collect dirt and dust, and the way oils make things work smoothly. But be prepared that there may be corrosion that surface treatments won't help.

suggestion: take photos of every area, every step, if you decide to start removing parts in order to clean and lube. And work in very small sections as you get a handle on what is going on. Fortunately a camera like the Horseman is a group of discrete systems so you don't have to worry about one mistake cascading into other operations of the camera.

And NONE of the above applies to shutters or to film backs. Whole different games on those.

 

[Stephen Power]

Depends on how far in you want to go. Ideally, you disassemble and take metal polish to parts to clean off surface dirt and corrosion. Be sure to clean the inside surface of bearings and slide barrels, also, like where the extension slides slide through.

Thank you for the very comprehensive reply. The short answer is that I don't feel competent to dismantle the camera at all, so I might just stick to cleaning what I can reach from the outside. I play the saxophone, so I have very light oil in a needle dispenser bottle and Naptha to hand and plenty of cotton buds, as they are all used to clean my instruments.

The main issue is that the spring catches holding in the back may not become any more flexible with a clean. It takes a really hard, strong pull using the 'tab' shown in the manual, to free one side (the RH side), then the other side comes away easily. I keep thinking I'm not pushing or pulling something that would loosen them, but I'm fairly sure I'm doing everything necessary.

 

[Stephen Power]

Thanks for the help with this guys, and especially Dan Daniel. I've now given the back of the camera and the frame of the rear standard a good clean, and particularly the recesses for the rods, the metal catches and everywhere the two parts meet. I've also lightly greased the catches and the rods with cork grease, a light grease used for my saxophone. I also oiled the knobs with a light saxophone oil and they seem to be extending further.

Overall, it seems to have made a huge difference! I'm no longer fighting with the rear standard to pull it away from the back. Yes, there is still some resistance and it needs a 'tug', but I would assume this is for safety reasons and it doesn't seem excessive.

 

[ic-racer]

I see the home-made strap (I suspect from the previous owner) and now that you are fixing the camera for your own use, you might consider a new strap. There are a couple options out there. I couldn't use mine without the strap. I use it like a handle.

 

[ic-racer]

Rear tilt of the front standard is not commonly used, unless taking pictures of ceilings, though it is useful if you want to make this type of picture. In that case, as I think you have realized, you can lift out the back of the camera and pull the rear upward.

 

[Stephen Power]

I see the home-made strap (I suspect from the previous owner) and now that you are fixing the camera for your own use, you might consider a new strap. There are a couple options out there. I couldn't use mine without the strap. I use it like a handle.

Yes, the strap came with it, and certainly looks a bit 'Heath Robinson' (you might need to Google that reference as it's older than even me). Any thoughts on where to look for one?

Rear tilt of the front standard is not commonly used, unless taking pictures of ceilings, though it is useful if you want to make this type of picture. In that case, as I think you have realized, you can lift out the back of the camera and pull the rear upward.

No, I can only get the rear to tilt and swing (not very far in any direction). I haven't got it to lift yet, which doesn't seem possible on mine. Great photo, BTW, PhotoShop has a filter for that style, but I prefer your method.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Saxophone is just about the perfect instrument to use as a model for what you need to do on your camera.

If a spring tab is too tight, you can reshape the spring metal. After cleaning and light lube, if it still too tight loosen the spring a bit. Now this is where touch and experience come into play. You can feel metal move from simply bending to being reshaped after some experience. But going too far is easy to do. Or reshape the latch catch?

 

[Stephen Power]

If a spring tab is too tight, you can reshape the spring metal. After cleaning and light lube, if it still too tight loosen the spring a bit. Now this is where touch and experience come into play. You can feel metal move from simply bending to being reshaped after some experience. But going too far is easy to do. Or reshape the latch catch?

Well, that was easy! A gentle push inwards on the RH latch catch and it needs even less of a tug. I'll try a bit more tomorrow if it seems to have tightened up again.

The next issue is getting the viewing frame off without a battle. It goes on easy enough after a clean, but needs such a strong push to remove it that it's moving the tripod, and I have to re-frame before loading the film back.

 

[Stephen Power]

I've posted my first image from this camera in the Medium format thread. Can't find a way to upload to the gallery. DoF looks pretty good.

 

[ic-racer]

Any thoughts on where to look for one?.

Check on ebay, the picture of the replacement handle in #7 above was form an ebay ad.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Rear tilt of the front standard is not commonly used, unless taking pictures of ceilings, though it is useful if you want to make this type of picture. In that case, as I think you have realized, you can lift out the back of the camera and pull the rear upward.

The rear tilt is meant to clear the bed away from wide angle lenses. If you look at the side strut in the first photo, you can make out that the strut continues past the body pin and has a second notch near its end. The other side strut will have the same thing- two notches. If you let the bed drop and engage the second notch, a wide angle lens will not have part of the image clippped by the bed. The drop of the bed and the reverse tilt on the lens standard are matched so that the lens returns to parallel to the film plane.You can then raise and lower the lens to get it into the center or for other effects (I have no idea if it has enough front rise to be useful for typical front rise purposes on a view camera).

 

[Philippe-Georges]

Put a little Ballistol gun oil on these rods and gently move them in and out, then remove the eventual excess of that oil, repeat if necessary, and it will slide like the bolt action of a rifle...
I use this method on the vertical rods of my Linhof Kardan GT.
Ballistol solves sticky grease and -dirt too, but it stays not oily, it penetrates in the surface structure of the metal and doesn't get gummy.

 

[Stephen Power]

Put a little Ballistol gun oil on these rods and gently move them in and out, then remove the eventual excess of that oil, repeat if necessary, and it will slide like the bolt action of a rifle...
I use this method on the vertical rods of my Linhof Kardan GT. Ballistol solves sticky grease and -dirt too, but it stays not oily, it penetrates in the surface structure of the metal and doesn't get gummy.

Thank you for the information. I'll look for the oil you mentioned. Since posting, I have used a light oil, intended for my saxophones, and the back is opening more easily now. I have also 'reshaped' the metal catches on either side of the back, but I will give your suggested oil a try to see if it improves the action.

 

[ic-racer]

The rear tilt is meant to clear the bed away from wide angle lenses. If you look at the side strut in the first photo, you can make out that the strut continues past the body pin and has a second notch near its end. The other side strut will have the same thing- two notches. If you let the bed drop and engage the second notch, a wide angle lens will not have part of the image clippped by the bed. The drop of the bed and the reverse tilt on the lens standard are matched so that the lens returns to parallel to the film plane.You can then raise and lower the lens to get it into the center or for other effects (I have no idea if it has enough front rise to be useful for typical front rise purposes on a view camera).

Good point.