looking to build a speed graphic portrait camera

anorphirith

Member
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
30
Location
west coast, usa
Format
35mm
Hello, I'm new to this format please bear with me !
I have a few questions :
-which lens are compatible with the speed graphics ? (I'm looking for a good portraiture lens (I'm assuming something around 200mm ?))
-which keywords do I search for to get more relevant results ? (when searching for the before mentioned lens)
-so I really need the rangefinder to focus or can I focus through the viewfinder ?
-is a film back like this one compatible with the speed graphic ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GRAFLEX-ROL...365294?hash=item58fb3f81ee:g:LnUAAOSwc-tY3tx-
-which is the latest speed graphic with a focal plane shutter / the most desirable speed graphic with a focal plane shutter ?
-what should I look for when buying one ?
thanks !!
 

Ian Grant

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
23,283
Location
West Midland
Format
Multi Format
As a Speed Graphic has a Focal plane shutter just about any 200mm LF lens can be used. Personally I'd use a lens in a shutter as that gives you two shutter options. Only later Pacemaker Speed Graphics with Graflok backs are compatible with that style roll film back. The top mounted range-finder type is the most desirable as it takes cams for different lenses

I shoot with a Speed/Crown ir Super Graphic (depends where I am) hand held, focus on the GG screen then finally frame with the wire sports finder and never use the range-finder, I find it very quick to shoot with. My range-finders are side mounted so only useful with a 150mm lens and I also use a 90mm & 203mm.

Rather than ebay try placing a Wanted advert here as you're a Subscriber.

Ian
 

Ian Grant

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
23,283
Location
West Midland
Format
Multi Format
Lens wise something like the Rodenstock 210mm f6.8 Geronar (also re-branded by Calumet) would be an option these were modern multi-coated Cooke Triplets, sold as Portrait lenses, very capable budget priced lenses, or the 210mm f6.1 Xenar. There's also the Congo/Osaka Commercial 210mm f6.3 - a Tessar design like the Xenar.

But the world's your oyster as any barrel lens (of the appropriate FL) can be used.

This is my pre-Anniversary Speed Graphic (it's a WA special) with a TTH Cooke Series f4.5 II lens (Cooke triplet).


And the same camera with a Petzval (I've fitted new bellows since taking this photo).



Ian
 

Dan Fromm

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
6,841
Format
Multi Format
Since it hasn't been said, Speed Graphics of various vintages have been made in 2 1/4 x 3 1/4, 3 1/4 x 4 1/4, 4x5 and 5x7. Make sure you buy a 4x5er.

The most desirable 4x5 Speed Graphic is the Pacemaker Speed Graphic. I have a 2x3 Pacemaker, don't use its Kalart (side) rangefinder. The viewfinder -- there are two -- is for framing loosely, not for focusing.

If you're going to shoot roll film you'll want a camera with a Graflok back. Pacemaker Graphics were delivered with spring backs that accept only insertion type roll holders and with Graflok backs that accept clip-on roll holders like the one you asked about.

Go here https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1sPJkp-Mdghc0JIYjdQZy05M2M for an instruction manual. Visit www.graflex.org and look around the site to learn more about Graphics.

I was going to suggest that if you're going to shoot roll film you should get a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic with a Graflok back. That's what I have. But and however, if you want to use a 200 or so mm lens focusing a 2x3 Speed close enough for portaiture will be a little problematic. One solution would be a 200 or so mm telephoto lens -- one, the 8"/5.6 TeleRaptar also sold as TeleOptar will do -- but a 4x5 camera would be a better choice.
 

Jim Jones

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
3,740
Location
Chillicothe MO
Format
Multi Format
The quickest way to learn about the Speed Graphic system is to go to http://graflex.org/. For more detail on the many specific models, study Graphic Graflex Photography by Morgan & Lester (or Morgan & Morgan in later editions). Editions through seven cover only the Anniversary model SG. The Eight edition includes the side rangefinder Pathmaker series. The 11th edition covers the top rangefinder series. Since all SGs use interchangeable lens boards, almost any lens of reasonable size can be fitted. The Anniversary uses the 4 inch boards common to many other cameras of its time. These boards can easily built from plywood, hardboard, or even foam core. Later models use a board formed from sheet aluminum, harder to fabricate but available online. A well adjusted rangefinder is quick to use. Focusing on the ground glass is slower and perhaps more precise. The ground glass image can better inform the photographer as to the final appearance of the photograph.


The Anniversary model is simple and reliable, but less versatile. The Pathmaker series is better if roll film holders are desired or more than focal length lens is used. All Anniversary SGs had a focal plane shutter. In the Pacemaker series, only the SG does. The Crown model does not. When buying SGs sight unseen, one should know these cameras well. Online sellers often don't mention (or don't know) when they are missing parts. The viewfinder may have the wrong or no mask. Infinity stops and focusing scales may be missing. Also, parts from several models can be interchanged. This can either handicap or enhance performance. Many of us customize our SGs in ways undesireable to other users. The focal plane shutter in the Anniversary is simple and reliable if well maintained. The more convenient focal plane in the later SGs is also more complex.

I agree with Ian and Dan that a complete Pacemaker SG is probably the best choice, given the information provided by the O.P. My favorite lens on the SG is the old Ektar 203mm f/7.7, although newer lenses may be better.
 

Ian Grant

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
23,283
Location
West Midland
Format
Multi Format
Jim, I use a 203mm f7.7 Ektar on my Graphics, I have one of the last US versions in a Compur #1, it's a very sharp lens as good as my 210mm Symmar S. Some people prefer Triplets and Tessars for portraits as their edges and corners are softer at wider apertures compared to the Ektar or Symmar and equivalent from other manufacturers. I acquired a 210mm Geronar via this Forum for portraits.

Further to Dan's points the optical finders need different masks for each Focal length so isn't very practical, however the wire sports finder works with all Focal lengths and also with movements, it's adjustable for 3 different distances to adjust for parallax, I've got used to mine and can crop quite tight.

One down side to all the Speed Graphics and the Crown is they don't have rotatable backs so you have to use on their side for "Portrait" orientation. If you don't really need a Focal plane shutter a Super Graphic is a touch more practical and has better movements.

Ian
 

michr

Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
440
Format
Multi Format

I always find being sent to look at graflex.org a little daunting since there's a lot of information, not really organized to my needs, and the forums aren't very active. You might be better off searching the web using specific terms to answer your question.

Basically you're looking at a few issues when asking what lenses are compatible. You're limitations are the length of the bellows extension. You'll run into limitations with longer lenses, and the lens not only needs to reach infinity (e.g. 200mm from the film plane for a 200mm lens), but further from the film plane to focus closer. Search for 'speed graphic bellows extension' online and see what turns up.

Also another factor to consider is the size of the lens, faster lenses are larger, and the lens needs to fit the opening on the front of the camera. Earlier models of the speed graphic had smaller openings, so opt for a post-war model (actually 1949 or later, because you'll want a Graflok back, instead of the older Graphic back in order to use a roll film holder). If it's not already mounted, you'll most likely need to custom mount the lens on a lens board. If you want to close the camera with the lens mounted, you'll be limited to relatively small, slow lenses.

The side rangefinder can be recalibrated to whatever lens you've purchased, but I think for a studio portrait camera, that is more trouble than it's worth. If you want more casual handheld shots, then the rangefinder makes sense. Otherwise, just use the ground glass back. The other viewfinder(s) are just to line up your shots, point and shoot style, and not for focusing.

Graflex cameras were made into the 1970s, so a late model one would be easy enough to obtain. I don't think there's any premium for later vs. newer, but Graflex did change hands at least once, so some models may have a better reputation (not sure). Since you're asking about focal plane shutters, I assume it's because you want to mount a barrel lens (one without a shutter). The most desirable in my opinion is the super speed graphic due to its rotating back, but it's also more expensive (and I can't remember if it has a focal plane shutter).

The major issues with the camera would be holes in bellows, uneven, bent struts, broken rangefinder (if that's important -- if you don't need it, it makes the camera a quite a lot cheaper). Make sure the interlocks work, that you can rise the lens and lock it, rack out the bellows and lock them into place, that the ground glass is not broken, and also, make sure the focal plane shutter doesn't have holes, and that it works. Also something to look for, make 100% certain you're getting a 4x5 camera and not a 3 1/4 x 4 1/4. They're very similar in size, and sometimes listed wrongly online. You can have the seller measure the opening in the back (should be about 4x5 inches), if there are no other clues available.

Final word, Speed Graphics are not highly sought after these days, be picky, the good ones don't go for much more than the bad. You should be able to get a decent one for $100-$150, often with a lens.
 

darkroommike

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
1,728
Location
Iowa
Format
Multi Format
The trick is using anything longer than 200mm, shooting closer than infinity. You really want a lens in the 250-300mm range for head ans shoulder shots for better perspective rendering but the Graphic does not have enough bellows extension. So you need to find a telephoto lens like the 254mm Tele-optar.
 

Ian Grant

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
23,283
Location
West Midland
Format
Multi Format
There's a lot of over-priced Speed Graphics on Ebay, I'd agree with Mich that $150 is a reasonable price, probably a touch more $200 with a lens.

The rear track guides need checking (or asking about) as often they are damaged, Graflex spare parts are becoming expensive, I've rebuilt a few and serviced their shutters (and similar MPP MicroPress cameras/shutters).

These are the rear guides on one of my SGs:



Luckily I found pair of guides at a reasonable price, they aren't usually this badly damaged, it happens when cameras are opened and closed with the rear part of the track in the wrong position. i bought 2 Spweed Graphic parts cameras of ebay from the US about 10 years ago, sold as parts to rebuild one good one. Unfortunately one was a pre-Anniversary (the WA one earlier in this thread) and a Pacemaker, No parts at all are interchangeable but both are rebuilt at minimal cost.

Be aware that you can swap a Pacemaker Spring back and fit a Graflok back instead if you can find one at a good price but they seem to sell for around $100. Also some focus frames take a Fresnel under the GG screen, that can be missing so focus register is incorrect, both castings have the same number they just got machined differently. Last year I serviced a SG shutter, and fitted new bellows, for a APUG member and his focus register was wrong, he'd bought a fresnel which I fitted which correct it.

Mike's right. I use a 17" (420mm) f5.6 ex-military (Dallmeyer) telephoto with my Pacemaker Speed Graphic and it need very little bellows extension at infinity, it'll focus to about 15ft with full extension on my WA pre-Anniversary SG which only has 10" bellows extension. I'm not sure how well a 240mm would work for head shots, I can try my 240mm Nikon W on my Wista 45DX tomorrow Same bellows extension as a Speed/Crown Graphic. Ironically I tend to shoot portraits with a standard or wide angle lens.

Ian
 

peter k.

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Messages
1,404
Location
Sedona Az.
Format
Multi Format
Yes it can be daunting, and yes the forums aren't very active, so if ya go there, and having trouble finding something, just post a question, and be patient.
Why? Because you have a depth of expertise and experience there, that is rare to find!
 

michr

Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
440
Format
Multi Format
Yes it can be daunting, and yes the forums aren't very active, so if ya go there, and having trouble finding something, just post a question, and be patient.
Why? Because you have a depth of expertise and experience there, that is rare to find!

Graflex.org forums have one post or two every week and a handful (literally five or fewer) responses. I don't think anyone should have to wait more than a day for answers to the questions asked. Why should we send them elsewhere when there are plenty of people here capable of answering their questions?
 

shutterfinger

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
5,020
Location
San Jose, Ca.
Format
4x5 Format
The top mounted range-finder type is the most desirable as it takes cams for different lenses
Lens are rarely their marked focal length. They can vary from a tenth of a millimeter to a few millimeters either side of the marked focal length. Cameras are usually set up for the lens at infinity, as are rangefinders.
Cams and focusing scales are made for a specific lens focal length. With a lens set to infinity the focusing error increases as the lens is focused closer than infinity. The error will depend on the variation from marked focal length to actual focal length of the lens. A focal length difference of one or two tenths of a millimeter will be off a few inches at 10 feet for a 200mm marked lens with a cam/focus scale made for an exact 200mm lens, the error for a 197mm or 203mm actual focal length lens with a cam/focus scale for an exact 200mm focal length lens will be close to 12 inches off at 10 feet.

The side rangefinder can be recalibrated to whatever lens you've purchased, but I think for a studio portrait camera, that is more trouble than it's worth.
The most common side rangefinder on Speed Graphics is the Kalart which can be calibrated for lens from 101mm to 165mm.

The other side rangefinder occasionally found on Speed Graphics is the Hugo Meyer. Hugo Meyer rangefinders are made for one focal length only and can be adjusted for the variation of focal length for that nominal focal length. 127mm and 135mm are the most common Meyer rangefinders but a 150mm or two has turned up.
 

NB23

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
4,307
Format
35mm
Aero-Ektar 178 f2.5
 

Dan Fromm

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
6,841
Format
Multi Format
Well, to begin at the beginning a 4x5 Pacemaker Speed Graphic's maximum extension is 12.5 inches. That's 317 mm. A 300 mm lens will probably focus to infinity on the camera but not close enough for portraiture.

In addition, the lens is in Sinar DB mount. Google Sinar DB mount. Probably not what you want.

A 210 will work.

Look, your questions paint you as a beginning beginner. You'd better learn more before you start spending money. Take Jim Jones good advice in post #5 above and buy a copy of Graphic Graflex Photography. I suggest 10th edition. When it comes, read it. If you don't understand what's in it, buy a copy of A. A. Blaker's book Field Photography and read it. IMO Field Photography is the best beginner's guide to photography.
 

Old-N-Feeble

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
6,805
Location
South Texas
Format
Multi Format
If you're considering using a 6x7cm or 6x9cm roll film holder then why not buy a 2x3 model?

100mm lens for full length
150mm for waste up
200mm (tele) for head-and-shoulders
300mm (tele) for tight face shots (long top-hat board needed)
 
Last edited:

removed account4

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
i have and use a 210/370 symmar on mine as a 210, there isn't enough bellows as a 370
you might look for tele optars, the 10" is a great portrait lens and its a tele design so you won't
rake out your bellows too much. if you like bokeh, look for a 10" portrait veritar, they work well
on a speed graphic too/
good luck !
 
OP
OP

anorphirith

Member
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
30
Location
west coast, usa
Format
35mm
Last edited:

shutterfinger

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
5,020
Location
San Jose, Ca.
Format
4x5 Format
The lens focal length is the distance it has to be from the image/film plane to focus infinity.
The lens you linked is in barrel so you will have to use the the focal plane shutter of the camera.
The two side angle pictures of that listing leaves me suspect of it. There is no mention of the aperture and if that is a mount flange it has no mount holes but marks from being clamped.
Pass at that price.
 
OP
OP

anorphirith

Member
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
30
Location
west coast, usa
Format
35mm
ok thanks, is that lens radioactive too ? I'd love to get an aero ektar but can't keep a radioactive lens in my small san francisco studio !
 

Doc W

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
955
Location
Ottawa, Cana
Format
Large Format

I am going to go against the grain and tell you that you don't need a Speed Graphic and that it may not be the best choice. Remember how they were used: mainly by news photographers who used them under less than ideal conditions, wide open, with a flash the size of a wok. The rangefinder was used on the fly to get a decent focus, not for fine work (although it can used accurately). Yes, I know that the focal plane shutter means you can use lenses with no shutter but the focal plane shutter is often not accurate on old Speed Graphics.

I highly recommend that you get a late model Pacemaker Crown Graphic (lighter than the Speed Graphic) and simply focus through the ground glass, like you would with a regular view camera. You can get cams for it (hard to find) that allow you to focus through the view finder, but for classic portraiture you don't need it. Depending on what kind of portraiture you want to do, even a 150mm works although that gives you more of the subject than just head and shoulders. I used both a 150mm Apo Lanthar (stupidly priced now - don't bother) and a 210mm Commercial Ektar, which is a fine lens and there are lots out there (probably all need a CLA, i.e., a cleaning, lubrication and adjustment).
 

shutterfinger

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
5,020
Location
San Jose, Ca.
Format
4x5 Format
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOLLENSAK-1...630677?hash=item2f07852ad5:g:eVIAAOSwagNZbEMO a good buy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ILEX-PARAGO...hash=item4aaf8f0fc9:m:mpOslo0NwVLEQTm7B0Gkx6w another good buy, the scratch is not significant enough to be of concern.
and another http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-ILE...442487?hash=item2a859023b7:g:1HIAAOSwbtVZSYBn
is that lens radioactive too ? I'd love to get an aero ektar but can't keep a radioactive lens in my small san francisco studio !
Radioactive lens also known as Hot lens used lithium glass that contained some radioactive particles that were filter out once discovered. A radioactive lens is not dangerous unless left next to your film for a day or more or you keei it next to you for an extended period of time. Search engine radioactive camera lens for exact details. Wollensak lens are not radioactive as far as I know.
Air bubbles were common in vintage lens and do not cause defects in the image. They are a sign of quality glass.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…