Looking into getting my first 4x5...

Shooter McGavin · Dec 27, 2016

So I've been shooting film for a couple of years now and I'm always looking to try something new. Started with shooting 135 and just having a lab take care of developing and digital scans. Then I started shooting a lot of film and lab costs got out of control so I now develop all of my own film at home (can do B+W, C-41, and E-6) and I also do my own scanning so I can do everything I need to have a digital copy of one of my pictures at home (I don't have access to a dark room or enough knowledge to make real prints). About a year ago I started shooting 120 and now I don't do too much 135 anymore, I pretty much use my Pentax 645 exclusively now.

Large format has never been something that has interested me because I try to avoid using a tripod at all costs unless I'm shooting long exposures, I prefer to be on the go with my camera and I prefer handholding. However after shooting 120 and falling in love with larger negatives, 4x5 is starting to interest me.

Are there any 4x5 cameras that would fit my shooting style? I realize a big part of LF is lens movements but that is something I would be willing to sacrifice for a bit more portability. I'm assuming I would need a camera with a rangefinder if shooting handheld. Weight doesn't matter to me too much, I realize most 4x5 cameras will be more bulky and heavy than I'm used to, however I would prefer it to be as compact as possible.

I just have no clue where to start looking or what quality LF cameras are so hoping you guys could make some suggestions.

So basically looking for something....

- I can hand hold
- Compact (relative to other LF cameras)

Things I don't care about...

- Weight
- Interchangeable lenses (I mean having the choice to change lenses would be cool but not entirely necessary)
- Lens movements

I realize some of this stuff might be counter intuitive to getting perfect, sharp images, but I don't mind slight imperfections or interesting image flaws.

So is this possible?

Thanks in advance!

480sparky · Dec 27, 2016

You can either get a 4x5 press camera, or a WonderLust TravelWide.

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 27, 2016

Get your hands on a Graphflex or Linhof Tech series. The latter being more expensive. There is also the Travelwide PS but they are only available for 65 or 90mm.

Leigh B · Dec 28, 2016

One of the Graflex "Graphic" press cameras would be an obvious choice.

They're designed to be used hand-held, and work quite well that way.
There's huge amount of info on the Graflex site: http://graflex.org/

I would recommend one with the side-mounted Kalart rangefinder, rather than the one mounted on top.
It can be adjusted for different focal lengths and does not require a cam.
Here's the service manual for the Kalart: www.atwaterkent.info/Images/Kalart_instr.pdf

These cameras use standard 4x5 film holders, which are readily available by the hundreds for not much $$.

A "normal" lens for 4x5 (equal to the film diagonal) is about 150mm.
The lens commonly supplied on the Graphic was 127mm or 135mm.

Note that lenses for view cameras normally include the shutter as an integral component.

- Leigh

jimjm · Dec 28, 2016

I'd also recommend a 4x5 press camera like a Speed Graphic or Crown Graphic. Main difference between them is that the Speed has a focal-plane shutter and leaf shutter, the Crown a leaf shutter only. The Crown Graphic is consequently a bit lighter. Look for a '49 or later model with the Graflok back, which is essentially the standard back for most 4x5 cameras today. This enables you to use accessories like 120 roll-film or Grafmatic (6-sheet) backs. Most of these cameras came with 127mm Ektar or 135mm Optar lenses, both of which give very good results.

I have a mid-50's Crown Graphic and it's a lot of fun for handheld shooting. Has a side-mount Kalart rangefinder which I was able to calibrate myself, an optical VF, a wire-frame "speed" finder, and the option to focus and compose on the ground glass if I like (easier on a tripod). These cameras are easy to adjust and repair yourself, kinda built like an old Chevy. I'd think a decent Crown Graphic in working condition would be between $200-300, maybe a bit more for a Speed Graphic.

Take a look at Graflex.org , a ton of information there.

Theo Sulphate · Dec 28, 2016

I'd recommend a Crown Graphic - or a Speed Graphic if you want the option of using the focal plane shutter (with shutterless lenses).

teejay · Dec 28, 2016

You might want to consider an Intrepid - I have one and really like it: https://intrepidcamera.co.uk

Ian Grant · Dec 28, 2016

I shoot LF hand held, while I have and use a couple of Speed Graphics as well as a Crown Graphic I wouldn't recommend one, instead I'd suggest a Super Graphic - Graflex or later Toyo version, or a Toyo 45A, because they are much more versatile in terms of movements.

Ian

locutus · Dec 28, 2016

You aren't going to handhold a Intrepid

mnemosyne · Dec 28, 2016

Shooter McGavin said:
So basically looking for something....

- I can hand hold
- Compact (relative to other LF cameras)

Things I don't care about...

- Weight
- Interchangeable lenses (I mean having the choice to change lenses would be cool but not entirely necessary)
- Lens movements

I realize some of this stuff might be counter intuitive to getting perfect, sharp images, but I don't mind slight imperfections or interesting image flaws.

So is this possible?

Thanks in advance!

Have you considered something like a Fuji 6x9 rangefinder? It's not large format, but then, 4.5x6 isn't "real" medium format either, so it will be a big step up regarding negative size without the drawbacks of LF (slow + inconvenient to shoot, high cost and limited choice of film ...)

Leigh B · Dec 28, 2016

Ian Grant said:
Super Graphic - Graflex or later Toyo version, or a Toyo 45A, because they are much more versatile in terms of movements.

I've shot Graphic press cameras hand-held for over 50 years, and have never once used "movements".

There may be occasions to use them when mounted on a tripod, but that's not the focus of the OP's question.

- Leigh

Doremus Scudder · Dec 28, 2016

I moved rather quickly to LF; I shot 135 first, then 120 for a while and always found that I had the camera on a tripod and was cursing at it because it didn't have movements. I moved to 4x5 and never looked back. My situation, however, seems the opposite of yours.

If I wanted to shoot without movements and without a tripod, I'd opt for MF. A quality 6x7 (or 6x9) system does use smaller film, but has the advantages of relatively greater depth-of-field, greater portability, TTL viewing for many systems, lots of lenses, etc., etc. Plus, the image quality with today's films is extremely good for MF.

Maybe you don't really want to change...?

Just asking.

Doremus

removed account4 · Dec 28, 2016

look for a graflex slr, series d, rb or super d

Paul Howell · Dec 28, 2016

Leigh B said:
I've shot Graphic press cameras hand-held for over 50 years, and have never once used "movements".

There may be occasions to use them when mounted on a tripod, but that's not the focus of the OP's question.

- Leigh

I agree, although the speed has some front movement and the crown a little more the adjustment must be viewed with the glass back rather than the viewfinder, I have not used any movements while hand held or for matter when used on a monopod. Unless OP is thinking about using barrel lens I recommend a Crown as it is lighter. If budget allows I would consider a Lindhof for it's interchangeable lens and masks and better build than a Speed or a Crown.

Jim Jones · Dec 28, 2016

Considering Shooter McGavin's stated preferences, a Crown Graphic sounds like a fine choice. The later models with a top rangefinder and the correct rangefinder cam may be a bit more intuitive to use. As Jimjim noted in post 5, the Crown with a Graflok back accepts a roll film holder, cutting the considerable cost of LF photography. So can some versions of the British MPP camera. Anyone considering a Crown or Speed Graphic without prior experience with these fine cameras should study the information on http://graflex.org/ before buying. Some Graphics may be altered, damaged, or incomplete. Sellers may not realize this. This holds true of other large format cameras. Any good buy on other brands of press cameras should also be considered. A Busch, a Meridian, a MPP, or a Burke & James may do well. The later Linhofs are highly regarded, but are more expensive. These all have metal bodies, unlike the Crown which is leather covered wood. However, there's nothing wrong with those Graphic bodies. The Linhof and Meridian have technical camera features that add to the bulk and weight without being better for the OP.

Luis-F-S · Dec 28, 2016

In a word, no. I'd stick to 135 or MF to compliment your "shooting style" L

Ian Grant · Dec 28, 2016

Leigh B said:
I've shot Graphic press cameras hand-held for over 50 years, and have never once used "movements".

There may be occasions to use them when mounted on a tripod, but that's not the focus of the OP's question.

- Leigh

Leigh, I quite regularly use some movements when shooting hand held with my Super Graphic where tripods aren't permitted, it's very easy. My experience is the Pacemaker Graphics movements are far to limiting, the Duper Graphic is far more practical.

Ian

Theo Sulphate · Dec 28, 2016

I think it's been mentioned already, but I'll second the vote for a Linhof Technika - such as a IV or V. They're very heavy, high quality, solid metal cameras, but do have decent movements should that become needed.

Sirius Glass · Dec 28, 2016

Graflex Speed Graphic, Graflex Crown Graphic, and Linhofs can be used hand held or on a tripod as a view camera. I have a Pacemaker Speed Graphic and a Graflex Model D.

DaCosta · Dec 29, 2016

I'm there with you. Years ago, I shot with my late Father-in-Law's Crown Graphic and managed to pull off some images. Sad to say, the camera was aged and "died" on me.

Now that I'm a mostly film shooter (90-95%), I'm looking at the Intrepid camera. I also keep in touch with Wanderlust as well. These are good ways to enter LF without going on Welfare. Good luck in your endeavors.

Sirius Glass · Dec 29, 2016

DaCosta said:
I'm there with you. Years ago, I shot with my late Father-in-Law's Crown Graphic and managed to pull off some images. Sad to say, the camera was aged and "died" on me.

Welcome to APUG

Speed and Crown Graphics can be brought back to life. APUG and Dead Link Removed has some very knowledgeable people who can help you.

Ian Grant · Dec 29, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
Welcome to APUG

Speed and Crown Graphics can be brought back to life. APUG and Dead Link Removed has some very knowledgeable people who can help you.

Very true, this was a basket case

Ian

Leigh B · Dec 29, 2016

Nice job, Ian.

- Leigh

Ian Grant · Dec 29, 2016

Leigh B said:
Nice job, Ian.

- Leigh

I bought this as part of a pair on Ebay, the seller said there were enough parts from 2 Speed Graphics to restore one good camera. In fact this one was a pre-Anniversary Speed Graphic modified from new as a WA camera, so the rangefinder is set up for a lens of approx 90mm, and part of the case cut away at the top.

The second was a Pacemaker Speed Graphic missing all it's shutter parts, aside from needing re-covering the rear rail guides were badly damaged and useless. I found a new set on Ebay.

Parts for Pacemaker Graphics can be quite expensive now on Ebay with one or two sellers stripping cameras and getting far more by selling the parts rather than complete cameras. But I'd suggest to DaCosta that they are relatively simple to restore.

Ian

Ai Print · Dec 29, 2016

Shooter McGavin said:
So I've been shooting film for a couple of years now and I'm always looking to try something new. Started with shooting 135 and just having a lab take care of developing and digital scans. Then I started shooting a lot of film and lab costs got out of control so I now develop all of my own film at home (can do B+W, C-41, and E-6) and I also do my own scanning so I can do everything I need to have a digital copy of one of my pictures at home (I don't have access to a dark room or enough knowledge to make real prints). About a year ago I started shooting 120 and now I don't do too much 135 anymore, I pretty much use my Pentax 645 exclusively now.

Large format has never been something that has interested me because I try to avoid using a tripod at all costs unless I'm shooting long exposures, I prefer to be on the go with my camera and I prefer handholding. However after shooting 120 and falling in love with larger negatives, 4x5 is starting to interest me.

Are there any 4x5 cameras that would fit my shooting style? I realize a big part of LF is lens movements but that is something I would be willing to sacrifice for a bit more portability. I'm assuming I would need a camera with a rangefinder if shooting handheld. Weight doesn't matter to me too much, I realize most 4x5 cameras will be more bulky and heavy than I'm used to, however I would prefer it to be as compact as possible.

I just have no clue where to start looking or what quality LF cameras are so hoping you guys could make some suggestions.

So basically looking for something....

- I can hand hold
- Compact (relative to other LF cameras)

Things I don't care about...

- Weight
- Interchangeable lenses (I mean having the choice to change lenses would be cool but not entirely necessary)
- Lens movements

I realize some of this stuff might be counter intuitive to getting perfect, sharp images, but I don't mind slight imperfections or interesting image flaws.

So is this possible?

Thanks in advance!

Based on the above I would skip LF and get a Mamiya 7.

It has a bigger neg than 645 but is still easily handholdable and none of the issues associated with LF like not being able to easily reload in the field, light leaks if the holders are bad or due to seating of the holder in the camera being off. Then there is the big one for us who live in dry climates...pre-exposure dust, not as much of an issue for hybrid workflows but can be a nightmare for us darkroom only printers.

Nothing against 4x5 or any large format, I do very much like the results and having movements is awesome but 120 is by far my favorite and most productive in terms of making compelling and yet technically excellent images.

Looking into getting my first 4x5...

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